So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Tosin Loads

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by FauxMustache View Post
you're right in that the adc is not going to like that. they haven't increased her support lane they have shoved her into mid lane like morg and lux who still have support in their descriptions even though they are never used as supports.
I main Morgana support, it's how I got from Bronze 5 to Silver 1.
That Taric FOTM.. can't do anything w/ a slow stun against Black Shield. 8)


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by Nightfallyn View Post
One of the biggest problem with the current Karma is that only her mantra'd abilities are effective. Basically making it so that all her skills at max CDR have a 12 second shared cool down. We will have to wait and see but if the base new non mantra'd skills aren't very good this will only be worse with only having 1 mantra charge. Regardless of how fast mantra recharges if every skill has to wait for mantra then it again puts all the abilities on a shared cool down.

I am quite concerned also that it removes strategic value of holding a mantra charge in reserve for escapes and defense. Going top or mid with only one charge means once you blow it, you will be much more susceptible to ganks.
We already know that her new skills do more than one thing without mantra, so they are by default better than her current skills without mantra. That was in fact the biggest problem with her that people were either too dumb to realize or refused to accept: Her current skills are absolute garbage without mantra (and her W is garbage even with it).


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EquinoxElite

Junior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
Lux is used as a support very frequently...
Personally I've never seen her as support but like twice.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by EquinoxElite View Post
Personally I've never seen her as support but like twice.
well, it's you. I see lux support pretty often in ranked


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by ThermoFusion View Post
I agree, and do explain if you will. You'd probably say it better than I could.
Gimme a second.


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EquinoxElite

Junior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
well, it's you. I see lux support pretty often in ranked
That's why I said personally. Obviously. And Yeah even in ranked. I barely see her as support. Again, IIII. Everyone has their own experiences in the game as well as their own opinions on these changes.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-18-2013

To everyone active in this thread, here's why Riot's Karma rework could be considered to be poor:

Her current gameplay is misleading to her visual appearance and an extremely vague and abstract concept, let me explain:

Quote:
In her new default - the following is present in her visual design all extremely characteristic to her new theme she is obviously supposed to reflect:

-Taijitu

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Taijitu - it's basically another word for Yin and Yang - the green glowing dragons that are visually present on her new default skin represent Yin and Yang and dragons are commonly used to represent the symbol of Yin and Yang.

-Eastern-style tattoos (dragon)

-Glowing

And over-all the entire dress and the fact they show more of her skin gives a bigger indication and representation of how the character is influenced.

The weight of the spiritual stuff in the new one is the huge floating yin-yang
Everything else just helps tie Karma to it visually.

Taijitu is green and glowing? Karma is green and glowing. It shows that there is some supernatural "energy" to her, which can then be associated with "spiritual energy" due to the visual ties to the taijitu.
---

Quote:
They've incoperated the three following themes in her visual appearance:

Karma
Yin-Yang
Spiritualism

-

I hope that you are already understanding what I'm getting at - Ashe has the theme 'frost archer' so she looks like an archer with a frost bow and plays like one, Olaf's theme is 'berzerker' so he totally looks like one and thus plays like one, Brand's theme is 'fire' or 'firemage' so he looks like one and plays like one, Rengar is a hunter/predatorso he looks like one and plays like one, Z.A.C's theme is 'blob-guy' so he looks like an actual blob and plays like one.

We can safely say that especially with default skins of champions they try to capture the core essence of what the champion is supposed to reflect through visual appearance and through playstyle [/B] - it wouldn't make any sense if for example Brand looks how he looks but ends up spewing out water instead of fire, would it?

Now Karma's new default screams the following three themes: Karma, Yin-Yang and Spiritualism.

It's extremely vague, abstract and not readable if she doesn't reflect those themes at all and ends up being a character that reflects a playstyle of 'tension' and 'momentum' - something her new playstyle is about yet does not remotely match with what her new visual appearance tells her.

In fact, it's pretty darn misleading and thus harder to understand which is what you want to avoid at all costs in a game that has over 100 characters.

The entire reason the community is upset about all of this because they've basically ripped Karma apart with her new kit, she is supposed to represent yin-yang, karma and spiritualism but ends up doing something else entirely with this new rework, hence all of the reactions: 'Hurr durr this ain't Karma anymore, this could entirely be a new champion!'
Everyone not knowing how to play with Karma because nobody really got how she worked, which was mentioned to be a common issue?

She wasn't readable.

1. You couldn't see she was getting more AP the lower HP she got unless you were literally tracking and checking her stats as you bring her lower and lower. Solution: Particle effects stronk, like you see when Annie's stun is up or when Kassadin's Force Pulse is ready/charge/available for use.

With her new default, they could've made it so that she begins to glow way more and gets way more shiny as if you are charging up the energy that flows through her body the lower HP she brings - quickly relating it to 'WHAT THE BALLS, THIS CHICK GETS SCARIER AND STRONGER THE LOWER HP SHE GETS, I MEAN LOOK AT THAT GLOW!'

2. Random shield, magical fans healing, it was really muddie'ing her design readability.

--

New kit: misleading to her visual appearance and completely abstract due to it being all about 'tension' and 'momentum' - I wouldn't have to tell you what a playstyle of 'Frost Archer' would be, right? It's freakin' obvious.

EDIT: I expect some rage/arguments/questions coming from this - I'm ready to elaborate on that further : )

EDIT2: Would appreciate it that if you downvote that you also give reasoning why you are doing that - thanks!


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestBilbo View Post
To everyone active in this thread, here's why Riot's Karma rework could be considered to be poor:

Her current gameplay is misleading to her visual appearance and an extremely vague and abstract concept, let me explain:



---



Everyone not knowing how to play with Karma because nobody really got how she worked, which was mentioned to be a common issue?

She wasn't readable.

1. You couldn't see she was getting more AP the lower HP she got unless you were literally tracking and checking her stats as you bring her lower and lower. Solution: Particle effects stronk, like you see when Annie's stun is up or when Kassadin's Force Pulse is ready/charge/available for use.

With her new default, they could've made it so that she begins to glow way more and gets way more shiny as if you are charging up the energy that flows through her body the lower HP she brings - quickly relating it to 'WHAT THE BALLS, THIS CHICK GETS SCARIER AND STRONGER THE LOWER HP SHE GETS, I MEAN LOOK AT THAT GLOW!'

2. Random shield, magical fans healing, it was really muddie'ing her design readability.

--

New kit: misleading to her visual appearance and completely abstract due to it being all about 'tension' and 'momentum' - I wouldn't have to tell you what a playstyle of 'Frost Archer' would be, right? It's freakin' obvious.

EDIT: I expect some rage/arguments/questions coming from this - I'm ready to elaborate on that further : )
how many times you gonna copy past the same thing?
her new look doesn't misleading anything, she's using her iner power to control the battle field, pretty simple


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
how many times you gonna copy past the same thing?
her new look doesn't misleading anything, she's using her iner power to control the battle field, pretty simple
Have you actually read the post? Her visual appearance screams: 'Karma', 'Yin-Yang' and 'Spiritualism'

Her current playstyle is about 'tension and momentum' - this has nothing to do with that.

Could you explain your reasoning behind saying that 'tension and momentum' matches her visual appearance?

EDIT: 'Inner power to control the battlefield' - how vague does that sound? To me and many other people it over-all looks more like a generic mage kit rather than a kit that really gravitates towards a common graspable goal.

And 'inner power to control the battlefield' isn't common or graspable at all, it's extremely abstract and pretty much an excuse to say why he abilities pretty much have nothing to do with Karma, especially in relation with her new visual appearance.

EDIT2: Sorry - I accidentaly downvoted you, I didn't mean to do that. Eventhough I heavily disagree with you and back up my points I never like or support a 'downvoting' battle between two people, it looks extremely stupid and negative - apologies! I hope that someone here can restore the balance in terms of giving him a +1


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Whyumai

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
zilean and morgana are just examples of champions who fits the same category, you got zyra, orianna and lux as well with a decent winrates, and if one champion got a low win rate doesn't mean another champion who fits the same role gonna have low win rate and low popularity as well, take lux, 2nd most played champion in the game right now
3rd most played. Taric and Caitlyn are the most played currently.

Otherwise I base my decisions on what someone actually said; not by what you think they said.

The argument still holds merit. Morgana and Zilean aren't played very often and don't have very high win rates.