So, about that Karma leak...

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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by Wolven Swiftwind View Post
another fail troll.Ive played karma since shes been out I have a right to this opinion
keep crying


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Bad isn't worth keeping around just for the sake of uniqueness. Karma's old kit was worthless, especially her W. The kit remake was needed, get over it.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Meanwhile why would attempt to emulate Morgana or Zilean with a champion? Both have low win rates and low popularity. Zilean's in about 1% of games and Morgana's not much better at about 4%.

That's fairly low.

In ranked Platinum Zilean is almost never played (averages less than 1%), Morgana is around 2-3% which is also quite low.

I just don't get the though process. Hey, better make remake Karma so she's like two other champions that aren't played much. That will fix the problem.
zilean and morgana are just examples of champions who fits the same category, you got zyra, orianna and lux as well with a decent winrates, and if one champion got a low win rate doesn't mean another champion who fits the same role gonna have low win rate and low popularity as well, take lux, 2nd most played champion in the game right now


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Wolven Swiftwind

Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
keep crying
Keep failing,only proving my point.


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FauxMustache

Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by EquinoxElite View Post
This is grand and all. But the one charge mantra seems a little too less. While on my Karma now, I've been wanting 3 charges but instead you lowered it? I know her passive is to lower the CD of her mantra, but if you're playing support, the ADC isn't going to want you to continue to hit to recharge mantra faster. I feel like this will 'cause a lot of conflict in solo que ranked matches with a ADC not knowing of Karma's changes. Also, I feel like the Spirit bond should have been kept the way it was. Only difference was that it heals Karma while slowing. It was very nice for catching up to players. Now you have to manta "e" just for us to gain speed. And on the way chasing we won't have time to actually hit and recharge to give final blows with a mantra charge. And the new "w" as a skill shot seems almost too tricky. It'll be almost hard to land late game unlike snares.
you're right in that the adc is not going to like that. they haven't increased her support lane they have shoved her into mid lane like morg and lux who still have support in their descriptions even though they are never used as supports.


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by FauxMustache View Post
you're right in that the adc is not going to like that. they haven't increased her support lane they have shoved her into mid lane like morg and lux who still have support in their descriptions even though they are never used as supports.
Lux is used as a support very frequently...


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Needles K

Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
if she won't have anything unique about her why would people pick her over any other champion?
Why would they pick any other champion over any other similar champion? They'll pick her because she fills the role and she's very slightly different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
P.S. fyi karma's current passive was once ryze's passive and got changed to what he got now
And now Karma's passive is getting changed to the exact same thing Ryze's did, only Ryze's affects all his skills and hers only affects Mantra. That's…uh…unique?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
Riot probably know what they're doing, and if it's not working the way they expected there's always a place to improve and change
I'm not worried it won't work out the way Riot expected. I'm concerned that they're removing a unique character from the game — one who is actually good in Dominion and Twisted Treeline, just not in Summoner's Rift — and replacing her with a hollow shell painted by numbers. This may very well be what they intended to do.


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Nightfallyn

Senior Member

03-18-2013

One of the biggest problem with the current Karma is that only her mantra'd abilities are effective. Basically making it so that all her skills at max CDR have a 12 second shared cool down. We will have to wait and see but if the base new non mantra'd skills aren't very good this will only be worse with only having 1 mantra charge. Regardless of how fast mantra recharges if every skill has to wait for mantra then it again puts all the abilities on a shared cool down.

I am quite concerned also that it removes strategic value of holding a mantra charge in reserve for escapes and defense. Going top or mid with only one charge means once you blow it, you will be much more susceptible to ganks.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Why would they pick any other champion over any other champion? They'll pick her because she fills the role and she's very slightly different.
you picking a certain campion because he's either OP or got some advantages over other champions of the same role,
Quote:
And now Karma's passive is getting changed to the exact same thing Ryze's did, only Ryze's affects all his skills and hers only affects Mantra. That's…uh…unique?
cuz they got totally different kits! ryze is more focused on this skill spam and his passive allows him to do it if used currectly while karma's kit will be focused on her mantra, and her passive rewards her agressive gameplay to get the best out of her kits, you can't compare a single ability on 2 champions, it's all about the whole set of abilities on each champion and how they synergize to make a champion unique! you take zed's E and kat's W, an AoE damaging ability, does the champs feel and play exactly the same? totally NO!
Quote:
I'm not worried it won't work out the way Riot expected. I'm concerned that they're removing a unique character from the game — one who is actually good in Dominion and Twisted Treeline, just not in Summoner's Rift — and replacing her with a hollow shell painted by numbers
what made karma that unique?! a cone heal? you got other champs with aoe heal just not as a cone, her W? orianna got also a slowing/hasting ability. her shield? the shield that doesn't add any stats and just damaging enemies when used with mantra? ohh this the part they kept on the new karma....like really, you talking about unique when most of her abilities are used on other champs in a better way


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Hidden Sniper

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Senior Member

03-18-2013

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Originally Posted by Skyson View Post
First you take away her fans, then you take away her incredibly symbolic passive (anyone on here arguing that Karma's passive is not one of, if not her MAIN, defining feature is completely ignorant to how Karma currently works), and then... ugh. So much of this is so depressing to read.

There's nothing good at all about this Karma except her E. You buffed the living hell out of that E and it's the only skill worth mantra buffing. Removal of her AoE heal, removal of ANY speed modifier effects on her tether.

The tether is ruined, I can't believe it applies no speed modifier by itself and you have to blow both of your other skills to offset speed to catch up. And it's only enemy-targetted now. You can't even tether a minion and run through other minions to wave clear anymore. Holy ****. Her tether is LITERALLY useless to anyone but herself, another one of the defining points of her kit, being able to SPIRIT BOND (what the hell is the new name of this W? lmao.) allies off of an enemy and tip the speed in your favor. Now you have to do it through mantra Eing and landing a Q at the same time.

Her E is ridiculous. Reasonably, it's one of the only things I ever wanted to see in a Karma rework. That and the tether doing damage to the target you tethered. This E is so dumb. An AOE shield and an aoe speed boost. There is no other champ that does anything REMOTELY close to that in one skill. All of the damage in this kit is right there in that E. You get the shielding power that Karma is known so well for, and then you get it as an AoE. There is no way that Karma will be viable as anything but an AP now. Karma support was lacking before, now it's just debilitating.

The removal of the passive is probably the most heart-crushing thing that any moderately intelligent Karma player will hate. Unless you buff Mantra's cooldown to something insane, then this passive is useless. The only Karma players who needed to worry about not having mantra stacks at crucial moments are ones that suck at managing or are getting stomped in lane anyway. 12 seconds is not that bad, not bad at ALL through early-mid because you shouldn't need to spam mantra skills at all.

This is abysmal from the eyes of a Karma player, but I felt the same way about the Katarina rework. More people who never even looked at her before will be able to play her because the risk/reward balance has been severely overthrown. And no one will remember the old champion because the new one is such a terror. Two of my favorite champions, and everything I loved about them, destroyed.

This is what happens when a community cries out, I guess. Oh well, at least she'll get popular. I'll have respect for old Karma players who will get overshadowed by people coming out of the woodworks and had never even bothered to look at what she did before the rework. lol
And my heart was crushed with the Sivir rework.

I only played her essentially up until rework. She isn't the same. She has slight strengths, but she was way more powerful come mid-late in the past, which is what matters and brought more to the table.

Sadly, Riot listens to the community and sometimes fixes what isn't broken when they go in for a rework/nerf/buff, and doesn't always do what is best.

I am disappoint in this one as well so far.