So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Let's see: real game scenario time.

Akali jumps on you and it's you (Caitlyn) and Karma.

Karma can do what exactly?

Moral of the story: Karma needs a peel.
E@mantra Cait, W+Q Akali, Cait also E her. Then Cait trap where Akali is snare. Cait Q and R Akali. Enjoy.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTharne View Post
E@mantra Cait, W+Q Akali, Cait also E her. Then Cait trap where Akali is snare. Cait Q and R Akali. Enjoy.
Caitlyn is dead by the time you have snared Akali.

Your move.


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Skaarrjj

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Caitlyn is dead by the time you have snared Akali.

Your move.
I killed Akali with my Michael Jackson Pelvic thrust maneuver.


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Caitlyn is dead by the time you have snared Akali.

Your move.
If Akali and Cait have the same reaction time, the moment Akali lands on Cait, Cait can E into one of her trap, and then Akali can't jump on her anymore. Also Imba E@mantra shield.
Even better, if Karma and Akali have the same reaction time, the moment Akali jumps on Cait, Karma can W her and you gain like 0.5sec for the snare.

But debating what Karma can do without knowing the duration of her W, or in fact any number is kind of pointless. So i'm just gonna stop here. We can continue next week when she'll be on pbe.


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Archadion

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveapotion View Post
How would you like it if you bought a car from me and at night i go into your garage, put new wheels on it, saw off the roof, put in a different engine, paint it pink, and put in some zebra chairs.

Cause thats what you guys are doing to the karma i payed real money on.

I was very excited seeing what she looks like now but completely changing a kit that was in no way asking for changes.. she had incredibly fun skills, and youre making her generic, what do you expect people to do with her now.. cause its not going to be support, shell be just another apc mid.

Even worse, you guys remove the very thing a proper (read: most highly rated) support needs: a heal.

The only thing karma ever needed was that knockback on her Q you guys talked about before, or atleast it was a rumor.

Just that little CC to have something against the gapcloser meta you've created with endless gacloser having champs.

Instead you remove the most fun skill karma had; the two way use of her shackle wich did honor to her name. Use it on a ally for movement speed boost, put it on the enemy to deal damage with the wire. How genious was that.. and you replace it with a single morgana ult target something..

Do you understand how that looks?

Why not put a knockup/stun on her skillshot Q
and put the slow back on her shackle and make the wire dmg again for utility, that would make alot of people happy im sure, and will make her viable as support.

You know, as viable as taric and nunu, people picking her in championships viable.

Otherwise good luck on the years to come trying to 'balance her' back and forth.
Karma's trouble was the vast power difference with Mantra paired with its dual charges and low cooldown with maxed CDR. Basically, it was never worth using a non-Mantra'd ability by later in the game. Teamfight? You could shield that dying teammate, but if you wait another two seconds you'll have a Mantra charge and you can do some damage too. Entire team getting murdered? Too bad you blew both your Mantra charges on shield nukes, so now you can't use your AoE heal. Enemy running? You're not going to slow them anywhere near enough unless you use Mantra on your W. All of her abilities were reliant on Mantra to feel good at ALL. Without Mantra, she had a strong shield, a decent slow/speed, and a decent AoE damage attack. That actually sounds pretty much like Orianna or Lux, but with the slow/speed attached to a seperate ability to the AoE, and without the range either of them have. Mantra was REQUIRED to make her abilities feel anything less than 'decent'.

The W was great in theory, but felt weird in practise. And besides, most Karma builds level W last, which means the slow/speed buff is absolutely mediocre until lategame. Saying you prioritised Karma's W is like playing Support Blitzcrank and levelling Overdrive first.

And speaking of Blitzcrank, I suppose that's exactly why he's seen so much use as a Support. I was just thinking about how Blitzcrank has such a useful heal in his ability set. Nunu, too. And don't get me started on Lux; she's a champion similar in style to the new Karma, and she has such an OP heal. Yep, Support champions definately need a heal to make them viable, just like you said. They're useless without a heal. Can't even be called 'proper' supports.


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lionheartman

Member

03-17-2013

As a Karma player I have to say... I liked the old one better.
Her new passive is rather useless if you go with the support role, and all together it doesnt look like shes gonna spam her skills to actually notice her passive a lot. Also she is now only able to heal herself...
The old Karma was always meant for group support, speeding up all who walk in the bond (or slowing the enemies). Her shield upgrade looks good so far and her Q appear to be a mystic shot with an inbuild iceborn gauntlet. Too bad things are already set in stone for her, but I will miss the old Karma, who was able to do any role, just her gaining a lvl didnt really have any impact. That was all you had to fix... being the only champion that can get 6 lvls of every skill but it felt like its only 4. Now I dont really see how her name fits anymore... usually you could honestly say "Karma is a b*tch" now you can only say, Karma is a mage. Well nice try RIOT... nice try. Yet another support goes to the never-play-again-list since she has no value in ranked games compared to other supports or mids or even tops.


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BlackMystic

Member

03-17-2013

It's not that Karma's old passive was forcing you to be at low health, it was a BONUS for enemies attacking you. That ADC Ezreal keeps hitting you? Run up to him and R-E for extra laughs. But now her passive is what? Cooldown reduction? She has lost her passive that rewarded you for getting hit.


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lionheartman

Member

03-17-2013

Couldnt agree more BlackMystic... hitting karma made her stronger, which is why her name was fitting her so well. Now shes just a mediocre mage without an ulti =/


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMystic View Post
It's not that Karma's old passive was forcing you to be at low health, it was a BONUS for enemies attacking you. That ADC Ezreal keeps hitting you? Run up to him and R-E for extra laughs. But now her passive is what? Cooldown reduction? She has lost her passive that rewarded you for getting hit.
She lost her iconic and most characteristic aspect of her kit that represented 'Karma' or 'What goes around, comes around' to the fullest.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-17-2013

That said - please allow me to repost our version of Karma and the analysis behind it as I continue to see people screaming and hating the fact that she's merely 'just a mage' and not 'karma' anymore, which I feel she totally is with our redesign.