So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Sessamo

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTatsujin View Post
i dont understand. why not make the tether heal/damage allies/enemies in the middle of w. if shes a support the heal shudnt go only to herself... just seems like your making it more toward apc instead of support.
They are, they said so multiple times.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
I'm sorry but they aren't "limited by their melee nature' in the slightest bit.

Olaf's got CC immunity and permaslow, and Tryndamere has that spin, his slow, and his ultimate.

There seems to be a misconception about melee being some sort of massive drawback, but because of all the gapclosers and permaslow, along with significantly better base stats? Being melee is a blessing.

And Karma wasn't exactly a squishy. And there's nothing wrong with a tankier caster.
I think the problem is that there are situations where being melee is a bad thing: in lane, where a ranged can harass them effectively.

Once they get to teamfight, the ranged has the disadvantage; it's much easier to play a melee then a ranged unless the melee has no gapcloser (and who doesn't, nowadays, especially with the ubiquity of flash?) If Olaf didn't have CC immunity, or if Tryndamere didn't have the ability to utilize his passive to the fullest without having to worry about dying, maybe they'd have more of a point, but as is, this rings hollow.


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
I think the problem is that there are problems where being melee is a bad thing: in lane, where a ranged can harass them effectively.

Once they get to teamfight, the ranged has the disadvantage; it's much easier to play a melee then a ranged unless the melee has no gapcloser (and who doesn't, nowadays, especially with the ubiquity of flash?) If Olaf didn't have CC immunity, or if Tryndamere didn't have the ability to utilize his passive to the fullest without having to worry about dying, maybe they'd have more of a point, but as is, this rings hollow.
Yup. Melee is a blessing. This game is made for melee. Ironically no one realized how strong Old Karma was, she boosted them even more.


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Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTatsujin View Post
i dont understand. why not make the tether heal/damage allies/enemies in the middle of w. if shes a support the heal shudnt go only to herself... just seems like your making it more toward apc instead of support.
Because that's exactly what they're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Karma was re-imagined in our eyes as a support-mage. Think Lux, Morgana, Orianna - the kinds of characters that scale just as well with ability power as they do cooldown reduction and provide a lot to the team in the way of supporting their efforts.
She isn't meant to be a pure support; Karma has been redesigned with a kit that "will leave you able to affect the outcome of teamfights and skirmishes alike no matter what lane you want to take her", not just pigeon-hole her into the support role.


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Cyrran

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnygma View Post
yeah, too bad there's a shortage of supports who can do so many things differently...oh wait
You have a few different types of supports. Heals/shields (sustain) Stat ups, speedup/downs (buff/debuffs) and Crowd control. This is what makes any support a support is excelling at one thing or another or being able to do a mix. Looking at her current kit, she looks like she's got the same abilities as lulu, except lulu still has her ult, whereas Karma has a...chance to make her shield shield her and an ally/damage an enemy. tbh, unless the ratios are great, since she now lacks the ability to heal which gave her a sustain edge (being one of two who shields/heals) she is going to need something else. Lulu gives extra health with her ult at least to help her allies out as well as a size/speed buff. Karma's doesn't give anything different to her target for 'support'. It's just more mix of damage, so why build support items at all? Just go AP and fight the ADC for farm or go solo lane.

Right now, I think she needs a good support mantra for lane phase. Her e is a little lackluster.

Now, as far as her being an AP burst compared to Lulu, yes the damage is done differently, but that only increases her chance to take a kill from an ADC and most people HATE that.


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Kaitoe

Junior Member

03-16-2013

A moment of silence in loving memory of Karma.

...

...

...

Leave us now in peace.
We are the fans in your hands.
Your Mantra goes on.

Let us not mistake,
This mage in your skin for you,
Lest we taste karma.

Forget not balance.
Forget not enlightenment.
Forget not Karma.

Forget not the fans.


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oOEvoLOo

Junior Member

03-16-2013

I've played Karma for a while now and i heard about this update to her she wasn't very good but now a ton of players will start playing Karma the only reason i dont like this is the loyal players will lose value and will now have to master her new spells but this is good she was weak but a good support though anyway people are just going to play her because of her update and they would have never played her without this i do think that she looks cool though and now that she has some heavy damage she can be goo


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oOEvoLOo

Junior Member

03-16-2013

does she even have a heal spell now


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The5lacker

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Quite frankly, having a kit that encourages you to be a low health to be more effective is both counter intuitive and troll-ish.

There are a few cases where it has worked (Olaf/Tryn) but only because of how limited they are by their melee nature. A ranged caster (a squishy concept) isn't the right place for that kind of mechanic. I appreciate how much you care, but that's not a great expenditure of our design and player-education dollars.
It also offers an interesting gameplay dynamic. Old Karma had this a lot, especially top-lane. By creatively playing with opponent's expectations of her strength, Karma could easily lure opponents into traps, which offers a degree of counter-play. I thought that was a goal of Riot. To offer interesting choices for all players to make. Right now, Karma doesn't actually have any choices attached to her, at least not for opponents. Do you get out of tether range? YES. Do you dodge her skillshots so she can't reduce the cooldown on her Mantra? YES. While this new Karma is straightforwards, she's TOO straightforwards, and while her kit isn't bad, her old passive was basically the one thing you guys should've kept.


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Zvenka

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Quite frankly, having a kit that encourages you to be a low health to be more effective is both counter intuitive and troll-ish.

There are a few cases where it has worked (Olaf/Tryn) but only because of how limited they are by their melee nature. A ranged caster (a squishy concept) isn't the right place for that kind of mechanic. I appreciate how much you care, but that's not a great expenditure of our design and player-education dollars.
In my humble opinion, for a new Passive it is quite, well, "Meh". Based on the info you guys provided about her new kit, Gathering Flame could have been just a passive effect on Karma's ultimate and possibly leave the old passive or make something else. This happened with Sejuani and her built in Phage as Passive.

I am still happy with the rework though. I'd love to see the other skins (Sun Goddess and Sakura) and not just her Classic skin and the free-for-all Traditional Skin.