So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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ihaveapotion

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FantasyTrickster View Post
What about those of us who bought her skins as well? What will happen to them? Will they be removed and unusable? Will they be replaced? Refunded?
full refund i take it, seeing as this isnt what i/we payed for.

And before riot now thinks 'oh that doesnt matter cause the refund is just in rp so youve payed regardless'

true true, but it was the last time i ever bought rp after this **** you just pulled here.

np.

(and i bought 280 euros of rp so far, so no more where that came from)


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cocacolalips

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Her original design was so rich and aesthetically & thematically well thought-out. A bit UP but nothing over dramatic really.
And here we are.

What a sad day.


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Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-16-2013

As a support u would be using R/E right? And u basicly wanna keep the mantra for when your in trouble. So whats the point as supporting then? Cause if you do get in to trouble and your mantra is down thats extreemly big now isnt it? And as you only have the one with from what i understand a bigger CD then currently even with the new passive. Is it worth using it to poke over it saving you and your ADC life?

Im sorry maybe im missing something but a R/E i assume the shield will give MS to both is way to big a thing to risk losing over some dmg. Or am i missing something important?

Edit* And btw isnt Karma ALOT more powerful now then season 2 cause of all the health stacking ppl are doing? O.o

Edit** I dont mind a downvote but atleast tell me whats wrong abt my post and answer my questions if you are going to downvote me...


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Lilly

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadhatClemens View Post
I don't understand why people are complaining about Karma's loss of heal. There are champions without heals that work fine as supports.

People are choosing not to look at the benefits (the increase of damage and the AOE SHIELD) over this fact. You don't need a heal so much when your support can initiate the fight in bot lane, tank the damage due to her healing chain, and deal enough damage to make your AD carry's kill so much easier.

Also, they are trying to encourage people to play her in different lanes. She had great damage before, and I doubt that'll be different.
If replacing her AoE heal with an AoE shield (she already had a single target shield, mind) because shields are somehow 'more optimal' than heals, perhaps you might look into Thresh or Lux... both of them bring far more, well... everything. Damage and cc is better, utility is almost identical with lux (Lucent singularity, root is a different mechanic but still a root, wand has no damage but ult well makes up for it), and thresh can initiate and tank significantly better (idk new karma's damage numbers, but innately single target q already means she's lost the immediate aoe damage on 2+ people).

If this were Karma with her same kit as it is now... + an AoE shield? Well, that's a different discussion. As it stands, her unique mechanics have been removed (no other ability in the game plays like spirit bond does), and replaced with the abilities of other champions. She's gained no net power with this rework, losing 1.5 of her support abilities and gaining zero (AoE heal is now AoE shield, with her old speed boost tacked onto it). I don't believe cramming all of Karma's gameplay and teamfight support into one ability was the right way to go with her... as she is now, I'll equally use mantra q and e in teamfights. As she's become, well: there might as well be only mantra E.

When I first heard a rework was coming, I really thought all they would be doing was giving me more incentive to mantra Spirit Bond, and increase the depth of her already amazing mantra-management mechanic. Sure, there was always a good time to use it, but it seemed to lack that extra 'oomf' of her other two spells... or perhaps to even further deepen it by allowing you to *double mantra* one spell to absolutely psychotic levels (guinsoo rework tweets hinted at something like this) like one might expect of an ultimate. As it stands, there's only one thing in his kit that will play as karma currently plays, and that's the still-intact and pointlessly buffed mantra soul shield.

After so long of playing and loving Karma, I never even considered that they would take any of her abilities (or passive) away from her wholly... and I sure as hell had faith that it would be an absolutely top-notch update that would make the character as she is deliver that-much more soundly.

I'm going to reserve my final judgement for playing this "new her" ingame, but from what everything looks like... I've lost a champion's competitive niche, a playstyle and gameplay mechanic I enjoyed, and even a character archetype and personality I supremely enjoyed. Were I to believe in any gods, I'd be praying that this isn't the case.

Edit: looks like she gets to keep some of her wave clear, thank goodness. Still, that line skillshot's going to play a lot differently than her short-ranged cone...


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Diddle Me Then

Senior Member

03-16-2013

This might seem a bit silly... But considering Karma was one of my favorite champions when I started playing League of Legends the fans were kind of a big deal to me too. I'm not asking you all to magically change everything and thus get fans BACK to her VU.

But would it be too much to ask that when she dances, taunts, cracks a joke or whatever - that she at least pulls her fans out during at least ONE of those animations?.. At least then there would be a reminder of what originally made Karma...well... Karma...


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Nobuyu

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Junior Member

03-16-2013

I don't know about you all, BUT, It's about damn time Karma got a new skin.


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ScareyCarey

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Senior Member

03-16-2013

Oh god, I wish that WoT quote war by BestBilbo hadn't been above the abilities rework. Dx I've totally wasted 20 minutes of my life reading smug forum superiority coming from extensive text quoting, forum response bullying (I've noticed you didn't respond to X's post on page 256, if you leave now I'll let EVERYONE know what kind of person you are!), and terrible quote misrepresentation for the sake of argument superiority. Awesome.

That being said! Karma's rework looks fun and exciting, I can't wait to play her. Her Ying/Yang thing with the green, jade dragons around her head looks I guess as close as you can get to that style without actually getting there. That's understandably hard given standard, stereotypical ying/yang representations that we know of today, what with the curvy line in the middle and the two dots. All in all, I'm glad Riot put a lot of effort into this and gave us these dev diaries. Karma DOES, admittedly, look like she'll play a lot like Leblanc now lol. I'm not usually one to say "Oh that champs kit's exactly the same as this one's." It's not, but it does border a little too close for me lol. But that's about my only qualm. Can't wait!


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johnnybravo2

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveapotion View Post
full refund i take it, seeing as this isnt what i/we payed for.

And before riot now thinks 'oh that doesnt matter cause the refund is just in rp so youve payed regardless'

true true, but it was the last time i ever bought rp after this **** you just pulled here.

np.

(and i bought 280 euros of rp so far, so no more where that came from)
No. If you read the riot posts, you would know that you keep any of the skins you bought.


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SirLapse

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobyk View Post
Leona has absolutely no heal, but she is played support. Lulu and Soraka are best played when you harass the enemy by autoattacking (Riot is creating this new meta now, stimulating support players to actively engage by autoattacking.......) Taric's AA were actually buffed as well. As a Janna you have no reliable harass source BUT your AA... So autoattacks are actually a big thing. Yes, a heal would be great, but then half of the supports that are out there (Thresh, Leona, Lulu, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Janna, even Lux) don't have sustain, they are designed to bring crowd control and high utility and/or damage to the team.... So there we go
This. If she isn't adjusted to fight against the meta, who would play her? Even Orianna has more chances to be picked over Karma.
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For the fans who question the skill changes:
  1. [1] The Q2 heal has actually been a game changer with high DPS champs in general (or even solo at times), not necessarily bruisers. However, her other skills could never catch up to the benefits of that heal, as it was not only AoE but healed other champs. Incorporating that and her old passive that centers around AP strength during a fight into the new Karma would just make her an APC of all things, except with a team heal.


    [2] That gets me into next point. Her W was practically questionable on use. I've played with enough Karma players to know that they never ping about what they want to do after activating it. It has to be obvious (which requires knowing the player, destroying viability in random normal queues) or it can backfire horribly. It was practically her only real damage skill since it had more range than Q and scaled higher, so you sacrificed a lot just by giving it to your teammate (unless you're both running away).

    [3] And lastly, dear Inspire. This can be treated as a buff due to the fact that it combines the old W's speed buff and E entirely. You're shielded and sped up, what two things can everyone do? Initiate and run. Self-explanatory. The fact that it can help the entire team now fixes her straight into the support position by allowing not only great team initiates, but possible team escapes.

    [4] The Mantra cooldown lowering does one awesome thing: HELPS YOUR JUNGLER. The more Mantra in lane, the better. I think that's what they were trying to get across. And considering her newer skills, faster Mantra means way more slowdowns combined with DPS and a possible Root (with no penalty when possessing two charges). The original passive just gave higher viability if you were actually fighting in the frontlines. That's not support, and it never will be unless you're a tank. Karma doesn't tank.

I can't speak for the fans being removed, honestly I would just add it in a taunt where she's fanning herself.


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Degu Fresh Style

Member

03-16-2013

I love her new image. I'm rather sad her "fans" couldn't be kept. I felt that's what made her unique as a character as well has her mantra consumption skills. No one else used fans. Now she's just using her mantle thing. I mean yes it's kinda unique but Irelia has a mantle of blades. So it's basically the same thing.

I also liked how her outfit wasn't so revealing because she felt more kept since she is the "Enlighted One" or was. So I'm glad you guys are giving her old skin to people who owned her. *was a person who bought her double bundle outright*

Well, I'm excited to see how she turns out nonetheless. I am one of those Karma diehards. Haha.