So, about that Karma leak...

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Dobyk

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Point View Post
I'm not really understanding how she is a support?

Am I reading her abilities wrong?
I mean she can ONLY heal herself. So all she is bringing to the table is a shield/movespeed buff?
Isn't that equivalent to doing something like gangplank support...

Also I disagree, with the analogy that Karma was bad because everyone had to know how to use Karma. The thing that made Karma different then other supports was she excelled in supporting prolonged engagements. Hence her heal also being a aoe cone dmg move. and a shield nuke.
Unlike supports like Taric or soraka, Karma didnt use "clutch" gameplay mechanics.
She excelled in aggressive play and forcing out or "baiting" enemy abilities.

My suggestion is to stop trying to congeal roles for champions and focus on making a FUN support, not a mid/jungle/top/ap burst/tank whatever class. Keep it simple.

I have to respectfully disagree with you, sir. I have tried support Karma many, many times, and trust me - it's not effective, compared to what other supports can do. Now actually she looks like an exciting aggressive support pick (like Lulu)! She has AoE slow, snare, a hasty shield, she can bait with self-heal and root, her mantra + E is an excellent support choice.... Unless the numbers on the crowd control effects are really, really low, she is actually a very, very viable support. Also, her new passive ensures you autoattack a lot, so you will actually benefit HIGHLY from harassing your enemies in bottom lane... Yes, no stun and no heal, so what? She has an amazing mix of damage and utility that sets her apart as an interesting and aggressive support pick, a much better support pick than Lux, Morgana, Zyra, hell even Lulu (if we are talking about aggressive supports). Therefore, I would say that if she has actually good statistics, she is going to be an exciting and rewarding support

And yes, I do main support in ranked.


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0neWinged

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Member

03-16-2013

She's gone form support to hard APC. No heal = not support anymore.


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Energymonstar

Member

03-16-2013

Sigh, This is what i was afraid of when I was told karma was going to get reworked, completely new feeling champ. The only thing Karma needed was a change to the W, it needed to deal damage to the enemy it was casted on, and it could have used a silence. Other then that, Karma is THE BEST support for BRUISERS not ADC. In fact, i honestly thought that was her intended design.

Seeing that Her Q Heals on Percentage and not set amounts, tanky Champs gain more. Karma teamed up with Singed, Garren, Voli, or Renk is just so damn abusive on top lane, and just insane on 3s.

Granted, I have not tried the remake yet, but just from reading it, Karma has lost all her utility. No more can you use the W on your own minions to get the hell outta dodge from the speed buff. No more clutch heal after an early level turret dive.

The changes ( especially the passive ) Feel like Karma is being dumbed down. If you can cast the mantra on every spell almost, it takes away the urgency to time spells and not fire them too soon. No more factoring which minion to cast the leash on to make the most enemies walk through.

Karma is a challenging champ to use effectively, Much like syndra. These changes make her feel very 1 dimensional, and as riot stated, it was done intentionally. And once again, How the champions kit fits in dominion and 3v3 was not considered at all from the look of it.

The art change is meh, not thrilled, not mad.

Overall, very disappointed with the rework at this point.


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KnowsNoSympathy

Junior Member

03-16-2013

While i was at first not liking the new changes...other than her look which was welcome. i realized i was just missing her old mantra + q. now if she got the new q but the mantra Q was the old one....that would be amazing...plus it fits in with the soul flare name...pleeeease do this to my favorite champion


oh and the passive change is horrendous. just give her ulti that anyway.


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Reindjea

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobyk View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with you, sir. I have tried support Karma many, many times, and trust me - it's not effective, compared to what other supports can do. Now actually she looks like an exciting aggressive support pick (like Lulu)! She has AoE slow, snare, a hasty shield, she can bait with self-heal and root, her mantra + E is an excellent support choice.... Unless the numbers on the crowd control effects are really, really low, she is actually a very, very viable support. Also, her new passive ensures you autoattack a lot, so you will actually benefit HIGHLY from harassing your enemies in bottom lane... Yes, no stun and no heal, so what? She has an amazing mix of damage and utility that sets her apart as an interesting and aggressive support pick, a much better support pick than Lux, Morgana, Zyra, hell even Lulu (if we are talking about aggressive supports). Therefore, I would say that if she has actually good statistics, she is going to be an exciting and rewarding support

And yes, I do main support in ranked.
Karme is never going to be a good support because the AD role is a ranged guy and karma is made to work with melees. Using her shield to protect incoming damage and the buff helping the other to get his objective.
In lane Karmas shield is almost useless cause that.
Now that she has the root and slow it might be different because she is not going to be just the shield, but .... she is her shield


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Dobyk

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reindjea View Post
Karme is never going to be a good support because the AD role is a ranged guy and karma is made to work with melees. Using her shield to protect incoming damage and the buff helping the other to get his objective.
In lane Karmas shield is almost useless cause that.
Now that she has the root and slow it might be different because she is not going to be just the shield, but .... she is her shield
Well, I bought her for her support capabilities, and as long as she has a support tag, she can be played support. Now she can be a BETTER support. And yes, old Karma was good with melee champions, which I wholeheartedly hated because I love bottom lane. To be honest many of the supports would be good paired with a melee champion if they can boost speed, slow the enemies and protect you - Lulu does all of these things, and yet she is a good support. Because of her higher damage, Karma can now eat out the enemy's health before your adc goes for the kill, you can snare the bastard, create a huge-ass AoE slowing explosion and still shield and haste your adc. If this technique is applied against squishy supports like Janna or Sona, its gg. The only problem Karma might face in bottom lane is against tanky supports with hard CC, so Taric, Leona and Blitzcrank will be Karma's bane


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ihaveapotion

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobyk View Post
Well, I bought her for her support capabilities, and as long as she has a support tag, she can be played support. Now she can be a BETTER support.
Oh right a better support without a heal and having to auto attack to be useful, yep awesome support.


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveapotion View Post
Oh right a better support without a heal and having to auto attack to be useful, yep awesome support.
Yeah sorry, that's not Soraka...do you know how to support ?


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Dobyk

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveapotion View Post
Oh right a better support without a heal and having to auto attack to be useful, yep awesome support.
Leona has absolutely no heal, but she is played support. Lulu and Soraka are best played when you harass the enemy by autoattacking (Riot is creating this new meta now, stimulating support players to actively engage by autoattacking.......) Taric's AA were actually buffed as well. As a Janna you have no reliable harass source BUT your AA... So autoattacks are actually a big thing. Yes, a heal would be great, but then half of the supports that are out there (Thresh, Leona, Lulu, Blitzcrank, Nunu, Janna, even Lux) don't have sustain, they are designed to bring crowd control and high utility and/or damage to the team.... So there we go


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Reindjea

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveapotion View Post
Oh right a better support without a heal and having to auto attack to be useful, yep awesome support.
We need to see her mana costs and CD

if she ates mana like she does now it is goign to suck, because you need to combo q+w to be usefull, and more now than she has only 1 mantra.

Also if the mantras has something like 30secs cd and RIOT is expecting us to hit minions to charge it again. No, i's not going to work, I would prefer 1k times the tarics passive than this one