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So, about that Karma leak...

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DominatorV4

Senior Member

03-10-2013

So, about that server lag...


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Faari

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
RiotAmes:
Ahh, I get you. Kit stuff you'll have to wait- this announcement was a little impromptu, so we're not revealing everything just yet.

But it must be close now :3 Edit: and what happened to the guy who leaked the photo of karma? Hope he didn't get fired


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Dunal

Senior Member

03-10-2013

This is by far the most important question that must be asked:

Does her Shield Bomb™ still exist?

Because the way I see it, it's the main reason why she's worth playing today. As long as its still intact, the rest of the kit shouldn't matter.

If that gets removed she'll no longer be Karma to me. The wait is killing me. It also makes Karma extremely hard to play on live knowing that her core ability may be shot down.


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Sessamo

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
RiotAmes:
Ahh, I get you. Kit stuff you'll have to wait- this announcement was a little impromptu, so we're not revealing everything just yet.

kk I figured you wouldn't be able to say much, I was just fishing.
I love her play style, I'm just really hoping for less downtime while waiting for a mantra charge or a less awkward W.


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Angry Steak

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Can't wait for this, especially if she gives off the same "Leader" vibe as Swain or Jarvan.


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Shinokami54

Junior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Severian NA:

More wonderful walls of text.


It's all good . I'm not in any way shape or form claiming that the way I explain things is the best either (after re-reading some of my original post, I definitely could have edited it better as well), but after spending 2ish hours writing and editing it, while being tired, I felt the need to just put it out there.

But that being said, I always invite discussion about what I say, even if it is just an inner dialogue that in general agrees with me. I'll admit one of the things I love to do is play devil's advocate, even if it's for something I don't personally agree with. Forcing myself to think how others see things help me further expand my own argument for what I believe. Also, I can't really call out Riot for the tone of their posts and then say "How dare you question the tone of my posts!?" In the end, I'm human and voicing frustrations, so it's inevitable that I could do better in how I say things. Like the free candy lines. Probably a bit too much on the crude side .

Quote:
RiotAmes:
This is going to be a long post, so stay with me.


I will admit, I wasn't expecting a red response until Monday at the earliest >.>. Some of what I'll be saying below will be echos of what others have said already, but even so, the more who say it, the better the chance of Riot being able to see the multiple viewpoints surrounding the issues.

That being said, I would like to thank you for the further clarification, as it does seem a lot of people have thought this was solely a visual update. Making it a relaunch is part of the process that I fully agree is necessary for the evolution of Karma. Also, with the situation concerning her primary method of channeling her spells, I'll actually refer to what I believe Severian had said in that there will have to be concessions made, which is absolutely true.

I feel that this part of the relaunch is fine, and won't even argue the point of a necessity (after all, I'm not in your offices seeing how the various iterations of her have gone). It's more so the issue that it seems her fans seem to be gone from her entirely, which is odd considering that she was using them before she ever learned to channel her power through them. It would seem to me that even if she didn't need them for channeling, she'd still have them. Even if it remains in her lore, they'd still be conspicuously absent if not on her person. It's part of the retaining who she is while advancing her to who she can be.

Quote:
RiotAmes:

The Traditional Karma skin came a little later in the project. IronStylus wasn't her original concept artist. We had already decided that the new base was what we wanted of her. When it came time to work on skins, Relaunch team thought it'd be cool to offer the 'vintage'(as everyone is calling it) look to players, so IronStylus took a shot at it and we liked it. We debated swapping the two a few times and decided not to.


Also, I'll admit I am disappointed that the opportunity to make the vintage skin her default was not taken. It's just one of those small touches that make Karma who she is. It's like if Eve's default skin was switched to a nun's habit. It really doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but a small case can be made for it (trolling/deception/etc). Not that Eve would really care about any of that specifically, but a case can be made for it. I think a lot of people would be put at ease to hear what the particular pros/cons listed in the debate were, to see why the new skin was chosen over the vintage skin. Though it'd probably just end up being more fuel on the fire, so maybe that's the reason for the reticence on the topic XD.

So although I don't believe that much of the decisions regarding Karma have been poorly thought, I do feel that thus far the sheer number of variances, not just the existence of variances in the first place, is really what has people up in arms (torches and pitchforks, on sale now in the shop! 1g a piece!). It's the little touches here or there that make people who are they are. Otherwise, every single champion would in essence be the exact same as other similarly styled champions, and that's kind of boring if you think about it. It's that Karma-esque flair that we want to see retained (not referring to gameplay, as we've not seen any of that yet and thus can't comment on it), and thus far I can't really see that it's been maintained (again, gameplay excluded, solely talking about what has been said about appearance/personality).

Now, as has been mentioned, I'm not omniscient, nor have I seen everything that's been carried out during the relaunch (and by proxy, heard all the reasons). That's why I (and others) have been posting, and we do appreciate the responses that we've gotten. I'm just not certain any of the divide is actually being crossed (due to our obstinacy and your not yet being allowed to give out what details might actually make the bridge).

It's why I said I remain hesitantly hopeful that things will turn out all right (because I don't have all the possible information regarding the situation), but on the flip side, it's also why I feel the need to continually try to voice my opinion regarding Karma.

Even if I am starting to sound like a broken record .


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Shinokami54

Junior Member

03-10-2013

Also, in reference to IronStylus having made her vintage skin, I swear that everything the parrot touches turns to gold. The parrot should be made management if he isn't already.


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
RiotAmes:
Ahh, I get you. Kit stuff you'll have to wait- this announcement was a little impromptu, so we're not revealing everything just yet.

You do way better than Valve on Half-Life.


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exe3

Senior Member

03-10-2013

You guys are taking a pretty hard line over this remake. Why this remake in particular when arguably her kit was fine and only her W needed work (it looks like, and i'm very disappointed in this, that her Q was scrapped, I LOVED the AoE from Q and E) where as on the other hand Morello has spoken at length over how toxic Soraka's kit (there's also the point that her kit has little synergy, that Q doesn't belong on her) but player attachment is the main thing holding you guys back.

You don't have to name names but are you working on or at least planning more complete relaunches like Karma in the future?

Oh and I think you should look more into evolutions in stories than retcons. Twisted Treeline would've worked better (and not left you guys with needing to perform a bunch of retcons ala with Noc and Maokai) had you made the story that the League shut down the old map and opened up a new Twisted Treeline in the Shadow Isles possibly so they could gain a greater presence in the area. Would've been better for all involved imo than the straight retcon you guys performed.

Quote:
RiotAmes:
Ahh, I get you. Kit stuff you'll have to wait- this announcement was a little impromptu, so we're not revealing everything just yet.

Personally I think it was a mistake to make this announcement. Acknowledge the leak sure but with this sort of big announcement people expect that the remake is just over the hill and I would imagine most are more interested in the kit than the visuals.

Assuming Karma doesn't come onto PBE this week you've essentially repeated the mistakes of Stealth and Magma Chamber.


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Fomorian27

Recruiter

03-10-2013

Does this open up the oportunity for a champion that does fight with her fans? I'm thinking a kitana from MK type character, who uses her fans to deadly effect, or maybe just one that causes gusts of wind.