What Is The Solution to the Balance Issues in 3v3s

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Rumplefugly

Member

03-06-2013

Twisted Treeline games are not fun because the same 20+ broken champs are the only viable options. I don't understand why Riot made a big deal about the new TT if they weren't going to do anything to address champion viability in this mode. If every champion can't be a viable pick in 3v3s, then at the very least something needs to be done about the current champs that are dominating this map.

I don't have a problem with the dominant TT champs when I encounter them on SR, so what is it about TT that makes them so problematic and unfun to play against? Is it the fact that their kits contain sufficient power for SR that translates into excessive power when played in 3v3s? Is the inverse of this true for champs who are more viable in SR than they are in 3v3s?

The only solution I can come up with would be labor intensive and require lots of man hours on Riot's part. Therefore, it's an impossible solution that Riot would never consider but I could care less at this point.

This is what you do: Retool every champion (or at least the most problematic ones) so they have two versions of their current kit: One that is balanced around 5v5s and one balanced around 3v3s. When you select a 5v5 or a 3v3, you'd be playing with the corresponding version of that champ's kit.

Retooling kits for TT could consist of things like minor increases to resource costs of abilities, giving abilities slightly longer cooldowns, reducing AD or AP ratios on champion abilities, reducing base damage on abilities, or reducing the effectiveness of steroids. They'd have to be handled on a champ-by-champ basis, but at the very least the more troublesome champs (Singed, Teemo, Jax, etc.) should have some of the power in their kits reduced for this map and only this map.

Or barring that, you could even change the costs of items on TT. Depending on the item, some could be less or more expensive. To use an example, why does an Infinity Edge on TT cost the same as on SR? Do you really think those stats are worth the same amount of gold on TT as they are on SR, despite the fact that gold is obtained at a slower rate in TT compared to SR?

I don't have the expertise to go through every single champ and say what's broken and what's not. However, I think it's troublesome that a map exists that effectively shuts out more than 70% of the current champs in the game. And Riot's inability to address this issue in a satisfactory way makes me not want to play 3v3s anymore. Which is a shame because the map has a lot of potential, but so long as it's dominated by the same 20+ champs every game, I don't see the incentive to play it.


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Technician Tim

Senior Member

03-06-2013

i think the new items were supposed to address the issue, only prob is, 2 champs arent really enough to protect a carry/assassin from 3 bruisers, i think any mode any map any items on a 3v3, the bulkier champs win

of course theres about 25-30 viable champs for TT, only 6 champs in a game, leaves room for some creativity


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Elementary speculation, my dear Watson, please dig a little deeper.

In all seriousness please tell me which champs are unviable on TT and I will do what I can to help everyone find a role for that champ that doesn't involve a rework. We have a couple regulars in the TT forums with a ton of both general and specific knowledge who would be happy to help you out.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

03-06-2013

1. Riot is pretty much against this mode of balance entirely, as it actually discourages players from trying out modes they wouldn't ordinarily play.
2. Karma is considered decent here.
3. Plenty of niche champs are viable, many of which can work in solo queue.


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metere

Senior Member

03-07-2013

I agree with your balancing champs differently as riot doesnt care about threes in comparison to fives as far as champs go. fives is where almost all the ranked players play and where the "pro" ganers play. fives are the"real game". Re balancing would be to extensive. I think solo que and 4-5 champ ban draft picks would help alot instead of re balancing all the champs.


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Rumplefugly

Member

03-08-2013

Xin, Jax, Teemo, Singed are just 4 of the champs that immediately come to mind when I think "broken as f*k on 3v3s."

Just now I was Teemo against a Xin top lane and there was literally nothing I could do stop him from diving me and killing me in 3 hits early game. Even when I blinded him, as soon as it wore off, his physical damage surpassed my poisons, and if I tried to run away I'd just get knocked up. Champs with bull**** gimmicks or too much power in their kits like Xin are all the rage in 3v3s, meaning the only champs that are viable are champs that are gimmicky or have OP kits of their own to counter it.

I'll be honest, I like TT but I sure as hell don't have any fun playing this mode. There seems to be no strategy beyond picking more broken champs than the enemy team and facerolling them first.


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Belvadon

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Junior Member

03-08-2013

Basically don't look at it like a champ's kit for 3s is broken or a massive faceroll. Look at xin in 5s, in the right hands he's also a faceroll as is any champ. You wouldn't pick a lvl 3 teemo to go against a lvl 3 xin one on one. That's not getting the teemo anywhere.

I look at it like this, a couple team comps came out as really good on 3s and people keep using them to try to win. I like to play other things, but constantly get bashed because it's not "good". Example I played Leblanc the other game and got raged out for it. End game I was 8-4 with my team mates both 1-9 because although they picked "OP" champs, it came down to playing right. They both got caught alone and said it was my fault for picking her.

You can easily get away from having to play anyone"Broken" by simply having a short chat in the selection menu and getting the team setup. All you have to do is pick 3 champs that can synergize well, if the team happens to lack enough lvl 3 force to pull of a good team fight, sit back, farm up, and deny the enemy early kills.

tl:dr: Talk to your teammates, pick champs that complement each other, don't instalock someone you want to play if you want to win against the instalocking bruiser/tank teams.


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

03-08-2013

I jungled heimerdinger successfully earlier today. Just sayin.


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Regards

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumplefugly View Post
Xin, Jax, Teemo, Singed are just 4 of the champs that immediately come to mind when I think "broken as f*k on 3v3s."

Just now I was Teemo against a Xin top lane and there was literally nothing I could do stop him from diving me and killing me in 3 hits early game. Even when I blinded him, as soon as it wore off, his physical damage surpassed my poisons, and if I tried to run away I'd just get knocked up. Champs with bull**** gimmicks or too much power in their kits like Xin are all the rage in 3v3s, meaning the only champs that are viable are champs that are gimmicky or have OP kits of their own to counter it.

I'll be honest, I like TT but I sure as hell don't have any fun playing this mode. There seems to be no strategy beyond picking more broken champs than the enemy team and facerolling them first.
But, but... You said Teemo was broke, so how does that happen? But seriously, all of those champs have counters, and Teemo is the easiest to counter with the new Lightbringer... I'd honestly go so far to say that Teemo is teir 3/4 with the new Lightbringer passive.


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Goggris

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumplefugly View Post
Xin, Jax, Teemo, Singed are just 4 of the champs that immediately come to mind when I think "broken as f*k on 3v3s."

Just now I was Teemo against a Xin top lane and there was literally nothing I could do stop him from diving me and killing me in 3 hits early game. Even when I blinded him, as soon as it wore off, his physical damage surpassed my poisons, and if I tried to run away I'd just get knocked up. Champs with bull**** gimmicks or too much power in their kits like Xin are all the rage in 3v3s, meaning the only champs that are viable are champs that are gimmicky or have OP kits of their own to counter it.

I'll be honest, I like TT but I sure as hell don't have any fun playing this mode. There seems to be no strategy beyond picking more broken champs than the enemy team and facerolling them first.
Of the 4 you mentioned only Singed is truly OP right now. In high level play Xin, Jax, Teemo never get banned, and only sometimes get picked - certainly not first picked.


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