Understanding the balance between classes

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fgfg

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Hi folks! First of all, english is not my every day language, so forgive me for my mistakes.

I'm an experienced player, have more than 500 normal wins, as well as several hundreds co-op and ARAM games played.

Recently I did some research and calculations about tank itemization. A lot of players using EHP formula to see how the champion is tanky. But the reality is that in this game there are percentage armor and mr penetration, as well as damage that scales of target's maximum or current health. And in some way the more defensive stats you have, the more effective this damage types will be. That's why if the tank is correctly countered, he can melt as fast as glass cannon ADC.

So, I came up with an idea that there are flat damage types, that counters glassy champions, and percentage damage types that destroys defensive champions. Then I tried to remember who mostly has that percentage damages: Vi, Mundo, Warwick, Poppy likes to scale of maximum HP. Jayce, Darius, Jarvan, Renekton, Trundle, Xin likes to penetrate percentage of armor or mr. They are all bruisers. Well there are Vayne, Kog but mostly it is still bruisers.

Then I realised the balance between classes. For me it looks this way:
bruiser > tank > adc > mage > bruiser

Bruisers usually have scaling magic resist and percentage damage types, they like CC reduction and tenacity boots, that helps them crush tanks (who deal mostly magic damage).

Tanks usually have higher armor and not scaling mr, they prefer tabi boots and have high CC and damage reduction, and deal flat damage. That helps them rush through enemy team to the glassy ADC and destroy him.

ADC are glassy champions with high range and flat damage, that helps them outrange another glassy ranged class mage and destroy them.

Well then I decided that I should drop supports because they are not really deal any high damage, rather some heals and buffs, and I should link the chain by saying that mages counters bruisers, not completely sure why, since bruisers likes mr.

I would like to completely realise this counter thing that is in minds of Riot developers, so I'd like to see your feedback, correct me if I'm wrong.


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fgfg

Senior Member

03-06-2013

300 views and not a single reply c'mon


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KireAB

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Bruiser = tank. That's the only reason to focus them. There are exceptions (true tanks with taunt) but most "tanks" are bruisers. And, bruisers can do magic damage or scale with AP.

ADC < anything when he's caught (both CC and burst counters them). ADC should lose ANY duel before 5-6 items versus equal gold non-ADC unless he can outrange/kite opponent.


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Madfriar

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Well... these things can be situational. You completely left out assassins, which are a thing of their own.

Lots of champions also do not simply fall into one category, and can do multiple roles with varying effects.

ADC > Mage? Pretty sure Akali and Leblanc would disagree with that. Not every AP carry beats every AD carry, and not every AD carry beats every AP carry. This goes for all of the other comparisons you made, none of them are necessarily true because there are big exceptions to ALL OF THEM.


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Oai

Member

03-07-2013

Characters aren't balanced around single 1v1's, and Riot has said somewhere that they try to avoid hard counters because they don't want the game to be as simple as rock/paper/scissors. I believe that it's best not to really look at what beats what, but rather; how well can this character do in lane and what can it bring to the table in a team fight? When working with that, it's easier to understand champion picks in higher level games/tournaments.

Other than that, I'd say that early-mid game, most Mage > most ADC because of their burst potential. Late game, ADC > Mage because their autoattacks are basically as strong as a burst against non-tankys.


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fgfg

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KireAB View Post
Bruiser = tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatJuggahole View Post
bruiser with gap closer and % health damage riot does it again
He's a tank!
So bruiser =/= tank. Morello approved.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

03-16-2013

I really do wish bruisers had less innate strength, because they all build tanky and are rendered fruitless to focus in a team fight but have enough damage to outright kill your squishy, and thus cannot be ignored. It's a loose loose situation a lot of the time. Kind of frustrating. Doesn't apply to all bruisers, but a few that have free stats tend to force this burden. Not entirely sure how to react except blowing the team's CC on them. They are also pretty much an upgraded tank >_>.