why has the lore declined so much?

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Chibodee Crocket

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
Sorry, I thought you were making the common mistake and instead I see you are making a whole new one.

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There exists an ancient order originating in the Ionian Isles dedicated to the preservation of balance. Order, chaos, light, darkness -- all things must exist in perfect harmony, for such is the way of the universe. This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Shen is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Watching the Stars - exercising judgment untainted by prejudice.

Born to a clan whose members have decorated the ranks of the Kinkou for generations, Shen was trained his entire life to become the Eye of Twilight, and thereupon to dispassionately determine what must be done in the interests of equilibrium. As his final trial to ascend to this position, he was made to attend the Takanu, a ceremony in which his father was tortured before his eyes to test his resolve. Any reaction whatsoever would have resulted in his immediate disqualification, but he never averted his gaze and never blinked, not once. As the Eye of Twilight, Shen must make decisions which would buckle the wills of ordinary men, removing all emotion from the equation. He now works with his fellows Akali and Kennen to enforce the balance of Valoran. This hallowed pursuit has unsurprisingly led the triumvirate to the Fields of Justice.

"The Eye of Twilight sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium."
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Nowhere in there says that becoming the Eye of the Twilight makes one "the master".

Furthermore, Shen becoming the Eye of the Twilight does not invalidate his father's title as master. He didn't exactly retire after all.
In Shen's lore it also doesn't state Shen's father was the master of the order, nor does it state (RiotRunaan did in the AMA) that his father was the previous Eye of the Twilight.

So Shen's father magically became the leader in the new lore.

It also states that Zed is a user of forbidden shadow magic, yet Shen and Akali both have shadow skills and Akali is known as the fist of shadows.

If Shen's father truly was the Eye of the Twlight, he would have executed Zed on the spot for using the forbidden magic as he threatened the balance.


Plot holes, plot holes everywhere!


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Adding more context later does not make it inconsistent.

Did you consider that maybe there is more than one type of shadow magic? A non-forbidden type?

Also Akali is hinted at being a former follower of Zed's group anyways. It makes sense for her to have forbidden techniques in that respect.

Shen's father also said he failed Zed, and RiotRunaan has said that Shen may have to forgive Zed entirely. Zed threatening the balance does not warrant instant death. If you think so then you have a very twisted and polarized view of Ionians in general. Even Syndra threatened to upset the balance and the very worst they threatened her with was stripping her ... ... of her powers. Yeah, stripping her of her powers. Shut up.

You are seeing plot holes were there are none.


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Mytos Kunn

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
Adding more context later does not make it inconsistent.

Did you consider that maybe there is more than one type of shadow magic? A non-forbidden type?

Also Akali is hinted at being a former follower of Zed's group anyways. It makes sense for her to have forbidden techniques in that respect.

Shen's father also said he failed Zed, and RiotRunaan has said that Shen may have to forgive Zed entirely. Zed threatening the balance does not warrant instant death. If you think so then you have a very twisted and polarized view of Ionians in general. Even Syndra threatened to upset the balance and the very worst they threatened her with was stripping her ... ... of her powers. Yeah, stripping her of her powers. Shut up.

You are seeing plot holes were there are none.
Akali's lore states she was trained from childhood by her mother then at 14 joined the Kinkou. In her lore and the lore of the Kinkou she is already the Fist of Shadow before Zed started teaching his methods so she couldn't have been his former student.

''Zed threatening the balance does not warrant instant death. If you think so then you have a very twisted and polarized view of Ionians in general.'' Except the Eye of Twilight is different. It transcends being Ionian.

''"The Eye of Twilight sees not the despair of its victims, only the elegance of equilibrium." From Shen's lore. Balance dictates all, if Zed was truly a threat to the balance Shen's father would have had him executed as balance dictates.

Syndra was not part of their order so don't bring that into this. Also in Shen's lore it is hinted he has joined the league to help preserve the balance through combat with the other champions.

''Did you consider that maybe there is more than one type of shadow magic? A non-forbidden type?''

Runaan has stated they now need to redo Shen's bio and clear this up because it is highly misleading.

''This is one of the things we'd like to smooth out in Shen's bio once we revise it. By "shadow warriors," Shen's bio really just means "ninjas," but now that Zed's in the mix it's a fairly misleading detail. : )'' < Quote from Runaan on the topic.

So yea there are plot has and it's very inconsistent, since Riot keeps stating they will elaborate but take sooo long to do so.


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Zed started teaching his methods long before Akali joined the Kinkou. He was teaching his methods at least .... 8, 9 years ago. Before Ionia joined the League to stop the Noxian invasion. Nothing in Akali's lore states that the role of "the Fist of Shadow" is directly linked to the Kinkou. Nor does it state where Akali's mother's allegiance fell; with Shen or Zed? Akali would naturally, while following her mother's role as Fist of Shadow, have that same allegiance for some time.

She is only added into the Kinkou properly when she is 14. She is obviously older than this now, and she was trained from an absurdly young age, but the very nature of the title Fist of Shadow isn't well explained. It could very well be a title that her mother acquired from Zed, who in turn created on the spot, or it could be title that has been in use for generations. This difference has a rather large implication on how tied the title is with the Kinkou order and as such whether or not it is a retcon or just context being added.

As for Syndra.... Ahem: "This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Akali is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree - eliminating those who threaten the equilibrium of Valoran. "

The Kinkou maintain balance on a WORLD WIDE scale. Everyone falls under their jurisdiction.

Additionally, you keep saying that any threat to the balance must be eliminated, and yet the mere presence of such things as the Box that Zed found is a threat. By the very balance that the Kinkou, and all Ionians for that matter, maintain there are necessary evils. Evil must, in some capacity, exist in the world; this is the belief of all Ionians including the Kinkou ninjas. At the time of Zed's banishment, Shen's dad was still Eye of the Twilight and thus responsible for making the decision of whether or not Zed was to be considered a threat to the balance. He exiled Zed; not killed him. Apparently he didn't consider Zed a threat to the balance. He later admits that he failed Zed; not because he allowed Zed to live, but because he didn't actively turn Zed away from the darkness, and in the years of Zed's exile Zed had become a threat. It was during those years in exile that Zed had started to tip the scales, and even then Shen's dad judged that Zed was not beyond redemption. Of course, Shen was the Eye of the Twilight at that time, yet Runaan also says that it is only after Zed kills Shen's dad and starts slaughtering the Kinkou order does Shen really start to "get it" and come into his own as that role... so that's Shen's fault for not calling Zed a threat when Zed returned. I'm willing to wave that as inexperience as the Eye of the Twilight while still allowing for his dad to attempt to rebalance the scale that Zed's army represents. By converting Zed the army would follow.

Finally, the whole "shadow warrior" confusion is not a plot hole. It is misleading, sure. But it is not, in and of itself, inaccurate or false, which is what a plot hole is. It can be misunderstood which would then, when taken to the logical conclusion, lead to a plot hole, but it can also be understood in the intended context and come to the correct conclusion, and this can be done grammatically correctly within its current form. It can also be rewritten to remove the possibility misunderstood, which would avoid Murpy's Law: "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it."

Stop being Murphy.


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Mytos Kunn

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
Zed started teaching his methods long before Akali joined the Kinkou. He was teaching his methods at least .... 8, 9 years ago. Before Ionia joined the League to stop the Noxian invasion. Nothing in Akali's lore states that the role of "the Fist of Shadow" is directly linked to the Kinkou. Nor does it state where Akali's mother's allegiance fell; with Shen or Zed? Akali would naturally, while following her mother's role as Fist of Shadow, have that same allegiance for some time.

She is only added into the Kinkou properly when she is 14. She is obviously older than this now, and she was trained from an absurdly young age, but the very nature of the title Fist of Shadow isn't well explained. It could very well be a title that her mother acquired from Zed, who in turn created on the spot, or it could be title that has been in use for generations. This difference has a rather large implication on how tied the title is with the Kinkou order and as such whether or not it is a retcon or just context being added.

As for Syndra.... Ahem: "This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Akali is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree - eliminating those who threaten the equilibrium of Valoran. "

The Kinkou maintain balance on a WORLD WIDE scale. Everyone falls under their jurisdiction.

Additionally, you keep saying that any threat to the balance must be eliminated, and yet the mere presence of such things as the Box that Zed found is a threat. By the very balance that the Kinkou, and all Ionians for that matter, maintain there are necessary evils. Evil must, in some capacity, exist in the world; this is the belief of all Ionians including the Kinkou ninjas. At the time of Zed's banishment, Shen's dad was still Eye of the Twilight and thus responsible for making the decision of whether or not Zed was to be considered a threat to the balance. He exiled Zed; not killed him. Apparently he didn't consider Zed a threat to the balance. He later admits that he failed Zed; not because he allowed Zed to live, but because he didn't actively turn Zed away from the darkness, and in the years of Zed's exile Zed had become a threat. It was during those years in exile that Zed had started to tip the scales, and even then Shen's dad judged that Zed was not beyond redemption. Of course, Shen was the Eye of the Twilight at that time, yet Runaan also says that it is only after Zed kills Shen's dad and starts slaughtering the Kinkou order does Shen really start to "get it" and come into his own as that role... so that's Shen's fault for not calling Zed a threat when Zed returned. I'm willing to wave that as inexperience as the Eye of the Twilight while still allowing for his dad to attempt to rebalance the scale that Zed's army represents. By converting Zed the army would follow.

Finally, the whole "shadow warrior" confusion is not a plot hole. It is misleading, sure. But it is not, in and of itself, inaccurate or false, which is what a plot hole is. It can be misunderstood which would then, when taken to the logical conclusion, lead to a plot hole, but it can also be understood in the intended context and come to the correct conclusion, and this can be done grammatically correctly within its current form. It can also be rewritten to remove the possibility misunderstood, which would avoid Murpy's Law: "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it."

Stop being Murphy.
1: Akali's mother was a member of the Kinkou order she was the former Fist of Shadow
''There was no question – she would succeed her mother as the Fist of Shadow'' Straight from her lore.

2: ''The Order employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. The three warriors are each entrusted with one of three sacred duties: Watching the Stars, Coursing the Sun and Pruning the Tree.'' So her allegiance and her mother's was always to that of the Kinkou.

3: I stated that the 3 of them joined the league to preserve balance, all you did was help me cement my point.

4: Akali's ultimate states: Akali uses an Essence of Shadow which falls into the forbidden magics in Zed's lore. It needs to be redone which has been hinted with Runaan stating they plan to elaborate on Akali's '' Twin disciplines'' which means her entire original lore will need to be written due to plot holes with the current lore added with Zed.

You're the one who seems to be following Murphy's law, especially in regards to Akali's lore.


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-13-2013

1: Nothing ties "The Fist of Shadow" to the Kinkou though. "The Fist of Shadow" could just as easily be a title from Zed's sect as it could be from the Kinkou. The only certain thing now is that Akili holds that title and by implication her mother does not.

2: Prove that the duty of Pruning the Tree is inseparable from the title Fist of Shadow.

3: You said that Syndra was not part of their order and should not be brought into this discussion. I admitably, actually lost my point for a moment there; whoopsie. My point with Syndra was that the Ionian viewpoint is to not kill first and ask questions later. They offer the chance for redemption. They offer people a chance to find their balance. And THAT is consistent with Zed's lore and its depiction of Shen's father.

4: Akili's lore is not in conflict with anything. And Runaan has implied that Akili is a former member of Zed's order. It makes sense for her to employ those abilities in order to restore order; especially so since her mother taught her to do what is necessary in order to achieve her goal regardless of morals. If Akali must use a forbidden technique in order to exterminate those who would upset the balance then she would use it without hesitation so long as that her objective is met to her satisfaction.


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Twerk it Twitch

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
1: Nothing ties "The Fist of Shadow" to the Kinkou though. "The Fist of Shadow" could just as easily be a title from Zed's sect as it could be from the Kinkou. The only certain thing now is that Akili holds that title and by implication her mother does not.

2: Prove that the duty of Pruning the Tree is inseparable from the title Fist of Shadow.

3: You said that Syndra was not part of their order and should not be brought into this discussion. I admitably, actually lost my point for a moment there; whoopsie. My point with Syndra was that the Ionian viewpoint is to not kill first and ask questions later. They offer the chance for redemption. They offer people a chance to find their balance. And THAT is consistent with Zed's lore and its depiction of Shen's father.

4: Akili's lore is not in conflict with anything. And Runaan has implied that Akili is a former member of Zed's order. It makes sense for her to employ those abilities in order to restore order; especially so since her mother taught her to do what is necessary in order to achieve her goal regardless of morals. If Akali must use a forbidden technique in order to exterminate those who would upset the balance then she would use it without hesitation so long as that her objective is met to her satisfaction.
Fist of Shadow is the name of the title given to one who performs the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree. So no you are heavily wrong Akali and her mother were both tied ti the Kinkou.

Akali's exact lore

''There exists an ancient order originating in the Ionian Isles dedicated to the preservation of balance. Order, chaos, light, darkness - all things must exist in perfect harmony for such is the way of the universe. This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Akali is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree - eliminating those who threaten the equilibrium of Valoran.
A prodigious martial artist, Akali began training with her mother as soon as she could make a fist. Her mother's discipline was relentless and unforgiving, but predicated on the fundamental principle: "We do that which must be done." When the Kinkou inducted her into the order at the age of fourteen, she could slice a dangling chain with a chop of her hand. There was no question she would succeed her mother as the Fist of Shadow. She has had to do much in this role which others might find morally questionable, but to her it is in service of her mother's inviolable doctrine. She now works with her fellows Shen and Kennen to enforce the balance of Valoran. This hallowed pursuit has unsurprisingly led the triumvirate to the Fields of Justice.

"The Fist of Shadow strikes from the cover of death itself. Do not impede the balance."''


Bold parts point out that The Fist of Shadow and both Akali and her Mother were both a part of and allied with the Kinkou.

The other dude is right about Akali.


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-13-2013

"This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Akali is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree"
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This line establishes the duty of Pruning the Tree with the Kinkou.

"Shen and Kennen to enforce the balance of Valoran. This hallowed pursuit has unsurprisingly led the triumvirate to the Fields of Justice."
-
This line repeats the goal of the Kinkou.

"When the Kinkou inducted her into the order at the age of fourteen, she could slice a dangling chain with a chop of her hand."
-
This line establishes when Akali joined the Kinkou.

"There was no question – she would succeed her mother as the Fist of Shadow."
-
This line does not clearly link the Kinkou with the Fist of Shadow.


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Twerk it Twitch

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
"This order is known as the Kinkou and it employs a triumvirate of shadow warriors to uphold its causes in the world. Akali is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Pruning the Tree"
-
This line establishes the duty of Pruning the Tree with the Kinkou.

"Shen and Kennen to enforce the balance of Valoran. This hallowed pursuit has unsurprisingly led the triumvirate to the Fields of Justice."
-
This line repeats the goal of the Kinkou.

"When the Kinkou inducted her into the order at the age of fourteen, she could slice a dangling chain with a chop of her hand."
-
This line establishes when Akali joined the Kinkou.

"There was no question she would succeed her mother as the Fist of Shadow."
-
This line does not clearly link the Kinkou with the Fist of Shadow.
The Fist of Shadow is always in charge of the Pruning the Tree.

The Eye of the Twilight is always charged with the duty of Watching the Stars.

Fist of Shadow is just the title for having the sacred duty.

In Shen's lore it states:
Shen is one of these shadow warriors, entrusted with the sacred duty of Watching the Stars

and :
Shen was trained his entire life to become the Eye of Twilight, and thereupon to dispassionately determine what must be done in the interests of equilibrium.

They are one in the same.

Fist of Shadow= The sacred duty of Pruning the Tree
Heart of the Tempest= The sacred duty of Coursing the Sun
Eye of Twilight= the sacred duty of Watching the Stars


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ImGayIRL

Member

03-17-2013

This is what I'm talking about haha. Although it creates great discussions it still leaves people pissed off.


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