I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...

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God Of Gold 5

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty Gun View Post
If you're Sion and you stun all three of the enemy team that build Blade of the Ruined King, I'd like to see it.

Too easy with syndra. ult the bravest close fool. Stun him and his friends. You guys really need to EXPAND that champ base if you want me to respect you. Bronze 5 forever.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Every tier 3 item is gold efficient - even discounting their actives and their passives.

Almost. There are very few exceptions.
sunfire is sad


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shroooooomed

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Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I completely agree with you on this point.

There are two goals here though:

1. Make sure that the counter chains work.

2. Make sure that the counters are not too hard.

In this case - it's a clear sign that BoRK is too strong and its counter is too strong, thus shutting out the large portion of other itemization. It highlights the fact that *both* items are too strong currently, and nerfing the effects of both help equalize the counter vs. uncounted cases closer to provide item variety.



There were pretty significant iterations in response to PBE feedback.

1. The active changed to reduce the damage generally.
2. The premitigation life-steal was stripped from the item.
3. We increased the cost of the item from 2650 to 2850.

Obviously those weren't enough changes - but we were continuously nerfing the feedback.

One of the tricky things about PBE feedback is that, due to the smaller player pool - generally skill discrepencies between matches are far greater - which makes collating feedback difficult.
make an official pbe changes notes so that people can know what to look for and test


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Noric

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersAnts View Post
Sounds like people are looking at the tab screen _too_ much and are getting an irrational fear of an item. Stun champions, like sion, syndra or even fiddlesticks really don't give a **** about your bork.

Top tier maybe don't know how to play? That could explain how lil ole bronze 5 me could womp a plat 3.
The thing is that BoRK offers a pretty nice 1 v 1 (because the numbers are tuned to work after casters burst). The almost 1 v 1(1 primary damage dealer vs 1 primary damage dealer) that is bot lane means that such an effective 1 v 1 item(good dps and great active(high damage that heals a lot a well)) doesn't have a counter within the itemization. ADC's can't build randuins to counter it and still carry.


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ClearDays

Member

03-04-2013

Just looking at the gold for its stats easily allows players to suggest the viability of the item. 40% attack speed, in a state where attack speed is much harder to get, matched with a decent amount of life steal. It also served as a nice peel and a nice amount of burst sustain in a 1v1 duel.

I don't mean any offense to Riot at all, and I truly believe you guys are working hard to balance out the game. But please, stop rushing the new content and updates. Properly test them out, instead of allowing a few players jump onto the PBE and play around with the new updates.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

03-04-2013

So Xypherous, after BoRK and Randuin's are fixed...what item will we complain about next?


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
The heal is pre-mitigation - which is something we're going to fix for the following patch. I still believe in pre-mitigation healing on the item - but definitely not at 100% efficiency.

The reason why it is pre-mitigation is that if the item healed based on pre-mitigation, armor values double counter the item, by both reducing the damage and reducing the amount healed - making it pretty pointless for damage or healing on high-armored targets - and making it ideal to burst squishies with.

(I think it overnerfs the item for it to be pre-mitigation - I think the ideal fix is to heal for 50% or 66% of the pre-mitigation damage - but that's something we can do later.)



It's far more effective because it skews your health to armor ratio in favor of heavy armor over heavy health.

But yes, I agree that RO is very strong for how generalist it is - it's just taken a little bit to be apparent generally.
I can see this reasoning. I'm guessing that's why the passive on the version of it I last saw in PBE was healing you based solely off your AD too. To be honest I liked that idea more than the current active because it was more gradual and less prone to just baiting with the active for a single massive heal. Plus I was liking the BotRK + Hurricane combo, but that's probably just because I liked seeing a viable use for that thing, it really needs something changed to be stronger, maybe increasing the max distance from the main target that the item works on?


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Sayrei

Junior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftover Name View Post
The funny thing is, BotRK has made me enjoy playing ad carry more than I ever did- I feel as though I can actually fend for myself with a self peel/heal.
Even if BotRK is overpowered, I still want that utility SOMEWHERE on my kit. The zehpyr item could be the utility stick for the ad carry- what if we removed the lifeleech component and added a unique active to zephyr:
Active: Gust:Steals 30% of enemy movement speed for 3 seconds marking an enemy- every autoattack or single-target ability landed on the enemy extends the movement speed bonus for .5 seconds to a maximum of 2 seconds added
Almost sounds like Youmuu


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013
6 of 30 Riot Posts

Quote:
Personally, I'm mostly concerned about the counterplay as a bruiser to an AD carry with a black cleaver, last whisper, a blade of the ruined king.
If they have a BC/LW/BoRK - they have spent 11,000 gold on non-crit related items. While they are hard-countering your armor and health to a certain extent - they should be generally doing less damage to the other squishier members of your team than an IE/PD/BT character.

Also, keep in mind that Randuin's Omen and Frozen Heart's AS reductions stack - so even if they are countering the armor / health of these items - you can still reduce their attack speed quite heavily and reduce their overall DPS as a bruiser.


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Tspiggs

Senior Member

03-04-2013

wouldnt it be better to raise the cost to 3500 or something similar. That way its more expensive than bloodthirster. With it more expensive it would take longer to get the item and make other items look like better first build options. Its so cheap and cost effective that its dumb not to rush it.