I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zovea

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
However, if the problem was armor was innately too strong - that means that all future champions also needed a way to break armor. By the time we had gotten to Darius and Zed - It was becoming rapidly clear that armor was the problem - and that we simply glued a bunch of armor pen steroids to get around the fact on champions.
I've only been playing this game for a few months now, but it seems like the health meta surviving the PAST 4 health nerfs is directly related to how ineffective armor and magic resist are when combined with all the armor/MR mitigation there is in this game.

ON TOP OF THAT: there aren't enough health counters in the game which makes the cost effectiveness of armor worthless when compared to health. I don't understand the choice in leaving armor/mr where they are currently when they are a direct CAUSE of the current health meta you're trying to mitigate through nerfs and over buffing the BoRK.

Is Riot really so happy with the current state of disparity in armor/mr that they're hoping to achieve a similar result with health? To me it seem like the only viable MR item is the Hexdrinker/Maw because they can't be mitigated and give the desired effect. As far as armor goes, unless you're aiming for a unique effect, armor isn't worth building over health.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Conductor Fizz

Senior Member

03-05-2013

BoRK became popular with ADCs like Twitch and Tristana primarily because BT is in itself not a very good item but there's a lack of alternative LS items for ADCs. Neither of these champions have heavy AD scaling in their skills and therefore are better with AA bonuses such as additional on-hits or AS. Even pre-buff BoRK could replace BT on Twitch due to the synergy with Runaan's Hurricane and his kit. I hope that the non-Cait/Graves/Draven/MF/Quinn ADCs are not forgotten when looking for item niches.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Graedahl

Junior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
My core problem is that I under-estimated the power of the components in lane. Cutlass + Double Dagger looked like a fairly poor combination in lane compared to any of the B.F. Sword paths - so I completely undershot this.

*Or* it could be that the 650 gold finish cost doesn't allow enough time for the weakness of the Cutlass + Double Dagger path to show through in lane. I'm uncertain at this point.
If you skip boots (looking at you MF) you can have BotRK in lane really quickly and bully them out of CS. I think this is the warping you are talking about, which was actually possible in the last iteration of BotRK, just not very many people figured it out. Hopefully no one picks up on the viability of grabbing a Frozen Mallet second, because that simply messes up jungle ganks and allows you too maintain bully status that much longer.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Malrock3

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
We haven't started nerfing the bruiser items because it has not been clear that it has been the items that have been doing it.

For example, Xin Zhao is crazy. Sure, itemization helped Xin Zhao a lot - but not all bruisers are crazy. Just a subset of bruisers. Is it an item thing - or do this subset of bruisers share a quality that make them very very good right now?

And as it turns out, they either have ridiculous amounts of free resistances or resistance piercing that were holdovers from S2. At least that's the working theory.

Basically - my bad.
Both you and morello have hinted that a set of top lane fighters are a bit over powered / broken at the moment... and that they all need to be tuned down because of the power offered to them by their kits in combination with the revamped items. Question becomes when are we going to see some fixes for this problem? xin, vi, and the rest ?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fomorian27

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
A little bit - However, AD carries themselves weren't contributing as much damage to the team as before - it was simply that the entire team was dealing more damage as a unit.

Carries that built both LW/BC are relatively rare - mostly because that build has no AS/Crit/LS or anything - so most carries only had the 40% armor pen compared to the 46% armor pen they had before. However, since everyone on the team did physical damage, including towers - damage as a whole crept up far too high.
Speaking of towers, is increasing tower damage still on the table? I remember you saying that tower damage was skewed towards arpen for the S2 meta, and that needed to change for S3, but then we never heard anything more about that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phourc

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
but we were continuously nerfing the feedback.
Feedback too stronk! NERF!! NERF!!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

kushmoke

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I generally find that adding more ways for players to distinguish themselves through clever use of actives or well-timed abilities to be a great way of adding skill to our game without necessarily making the game unclear or complicated.

Especially when those actives have long cooldowns.

I could be wrong though.
i believe i have a fix to this problem bork should be tested with a cooldown on passive, keep the current stats it has (active and all) BUT put a 2-3 second cooldown (like LB IBG or TriF) on the % of current health per hit it currently does

there is a good handful of champs that are HP based and this item i find ( along with the population abusing it if you see 2 or 3 on one team ) renders high Hp champs obsolete, like volibear a few of these champs are designed this way so the item is not only countering the health (bought items) but its countering their kit/skillset making these champs highly unplayable

for example if the enemy team has 1 or 2 borks hitting an amumu lets say, i couldnt imagine he would get much use of his .5 seconds off E per enemy AA before eating dirt and getting face stomped into the ground

or also ive been saving for maokai but am sceptical now. with new bork enemy adc can potentially chunk 25% of current health in 2.5 seconds with maxed AS which will destroy his passive restoring 7% of max health per 5 spellcasts this seems a bit unbalanced

these are just two scenarios of tank being eliminated to new bork but i believe my original idea for a 2-3 second cooldown on passive could make a big difference in fixing above scenarios and others while allowing adc's their individuallity but not completely making hp/tank meta obsolete and giving overall balance to matchmaking


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

kushmoke

Senior Member

03-08-2013

another good example is mundo
MUNDO HATES NEW BORK

lets say 3 adc maxed AS and focus a mundo with 6 warmogs how fast could they take him out

The problem with bork right now is that theyre is no cap and people could potentially stack it the percentage is fairly high to have only the restraint of attack speed so the solution is to put a cooldown on passive

hope that makes sence im no pro but it seems like it could work