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I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...

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GreekAsTheGods

Senior Member

03-04-2013

All of the children who claimed the item wasn't OP must seem pretty silly now eh? eh?



Yeah.... nuff sed.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013

Quote:

Randuins Omen has been OP for a long time. It's far too hard a counter to ad champions when compared to an item like Thornmail.
Potentially - When we changed it from S3 to S2, we nerfed the item pretty heavily by removing the attack speed slow from the active.

However, the other portion of it was that S2 Randuin's was always bugged to have an additive AS slow instead of mulitplicative AS slow - and fixing that bug has shown just how powerful the passive slow was.

It's taken a bit to percolate and see the full effects of but again - there are two major goals - Make sure that items can counter each other - and then make sure that the countered vs. uncountered case isn't so drastic as to shut out all possible other builds.

Quote:

All of the children who claimed the item wasn't OP must seem pretty silly now eh? eh?
Here's the fundamental crux of the issue: OP means a lot of things - but in this case particularly, the item is game-warping the AD-carry versus AD-carry case.

As bad as Bloodthirster establishing lane dominance was - this is worse - and thus it could've been awful or balanced and still overpowered, just based on what it does to the laning cases.


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Tspiggs

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Fisherman Fizz:
The main thing that seems off to me is the active. It seems insane that the thing does the same %hp damage as DFG, but also heals you for that amount without taking mitigation into account (so it's a HUGE heal) all on top of the giant slow and speed boost. The active just seems like it does everything, I'd much rather have the damage and heal toned down and focus on the slow/speed boost part so that it's still a strong self peel for AD carries.


It does take mitigation into effect. if the opponent has 100 armor and you use the blades active then the 15% gets reduced to 7.5% and then you heal for that 7.5%. im pretty sure its just poor wording on their part.


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Shaiandra

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Is Randuin's really considered a counter to BotRK? I figure it's one of the best defenses against AD Carries regardless of what they build...

What do you plan to tweak on BotRK? Just adjusting numbers, or removing some abilities? I'm kinda worried it's going into Force of Nature territory, where it's supposed to be built as a counter, but has enough universally useful stats that it can be considered core on some.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:
Here's the fundamental crux of the issue: OP means a lot of things - but in this case particularly, the item is game-warping the AD-carry versus AD-carry case.

As bad as Bloodthirster establishing lane dominance was - this is worse - and thus it could've been awful or balanced and still overpowered, just based on what it does to the laning cases.

So...it was borked?


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Neiden

Senior Member

03-04-2013

1st time I see one of your posts and think you are doing a good job, yes thats a compliment, good job.


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Tspiggs:
It does take mitigation into effect. if the opponent has 100 armor and you use the blades active then the 15% gets reduced to 7.5% and then you heal for that 7.5%. im pretty sure its just poor wording on their part.

According to here it's calculated before mitigation:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blade_of_the_Ruined_King

Quote:
The heal from the active effect will always be equal to 15% of the target's health - it is calculated before the effects of damage mitigation are considered. (TESTED)


If that's not the case I still think the heal is too much considering how much else it's also doing at the same time.


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Broven

Senior Member

03-04-2013

So, if BORK is going to get nerfed next patch...
Is HP stacking going to get nerfed as well?
Are buffs to resistance items (armour in particular) being buffed any time soon? As of right now, the only strong armour items seem to be ones that give HP as well.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013

Quote:

It does take mitigation into effect. if the opponent has 100 armor and you use the blades active then the 15% gets reduced to 7.5% and then you heal for that 7.5%. im pretty sure its just poor wording on their part.
The heal is pre-mitigation - which is something we're going to fix for the following patch/hotfix. I still believe in pre-mitigation healing on the item - but definitely not at 100% efficiency.

The reason why it is pre-mitigation is that if the item healed based on pre-mitigation, armor values double counter the item, by both reducing the damage and reducing the amount healed - making it pretty pointless for damage or healing on high-armored targets - and making it ideal to burst squishies with.

(I think it overnerfs the item for it to be pre-mitigation - I think the ideal fix is to heal for 50% or 66% of the pre-mitigation damage - but that's something we can do later.)

Quote:

Is Randuin's really considered a counter to BotRK? I figure it's one of the best defenses against AD Carries regardless of what they build...
It's far more effective because it skews your health to armor ratio in favor of heavy armor over heavy health.

But yes, I agree that RO is very strong for how generalist it is - it's just taken a little bit to be apparent generally.


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Dulzara

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Xyph, this item was a very good play in helping combat the ridiculous Warmog meta, do you think we are going to see stacking health returning to being the only thing people are playing?

Further, do you have any ideas on how to assist APs in this horrible world of massive healths? Liandry's still seems to not be able to do enough to these targets, and DFG to me has seemed weak since the scaling was removed.