Um 2 stupid questions.....

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EvilPooters

Senior Member

05-03-2013

How do I improve my map awareness and how do I not push the lane as a bot laner? Cause last game I was bot (cause I like bot lane) but I cost us the game because I didn't realize someone was back capping me while I pushed the lane up I didn't mean to push the lane either it just sorta happened. Anyway the score was close and I cost us the match people had a good reason to rage at me and now I kinda feel bad. Anyway I know I post a stupid question every other day on this forum but you guys tend to have good advice so thank you so much.


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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo11 View Post
How do I improve my map awareness and how do I not push the lane as a bot laner? Cause last game I was bot (cause I like bot lane) but I cost us the game because I didn't realize someone was back capping me while I pushed the lane up I didn't mean to push the lane either it just sorta happened. Anyway the score was close and I cost us the match people had a good reason to rage at me and now I kinda feel bad. Anyway I know I post a stupid question every other day on this forum but you guys tend to have good advice so thank you so much.
A really good habit to get into is to look at your minimap every 2-4 seconds. Just a quick glance can tell you if your enemies are in sight or not, which will give you an idea of how likely you are to be ganked in the near future. This in turn lets you know when to really put some pressure on your wave versus letting it push towards you a little. That said, letting a big wave approach your tower is just asking to be ganked.


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Bot lane is almost an SR lane, so some of the same concepts apply. If you don't want to push lane, don't attack the minions. Just last hit (for the gold) and let the creeps bash each other to death. If the enemy laner is pushing you'll have to push back, just don't go overboard with it.

As for map awareness, that's much trickier. Have to start checking the minimap every couple of seconds long enough to see who you can see and who you can't. If you see some champs missing (especially great roamers like eve) you probably shouldn't be pushing and you should keep an eye on your point for backcappers.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

05-03-2013

On the other hand, pushing the lane means that you will have access to all the Heal packs pretty much, and you have a very good chance of neutralizing the node. Plus you will be able to easily farm the 3 minions as they pop out, while their tower and absorption/negation tends to kill many of their creeps.

So I would be reluctant to compare it to SR. A gank bottom means that top is going to be undermanned which many times will cost them.

A general rule is that if your team owns TOP then you might not want to push the lane very hard. They will be very tempted to send 2 or 3 dudes to slaughter you and quickly take your node too, and regain the advantage. ESPECIALLY if your team just won the top battle and enemy is respawning.
You want them to keep attacking Top while your team owns it and has the tower advantage. After you see 1 top you can push again since if 1 came to gank it would mean they were 3v4 top trying to take a tower which wastes their time.

If your team does NOT have top, this would be a great time to push. Any pressure will greatly help your toplane as you kind of WANT someone to come gank. Even if they do and you die, a quick Revive will ensure you can defend your node (as we presume you will do some dmg before you die), and most of the time you won't need it.
This gives top a 4v3 to take the node.


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
On the other hand, pushing the lane means that you will have access to all the Heal packs pretty much, and you have a very good chance of neutralizing the node. Plus you will be able to easily farm the 3 minions as they pop out, while their tower and absorption/negation tends to kill many of their creeps.
It's also really easy to gank you, and you'll be farther away to respond to backcaps. Not always worth it, especially if people are missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
So I would be reluctant to compare it to SR. A gank bottom means that top is going to be undermanned which many times will cost them.
If I'm playing top/bot and I gank mid lane, the lanes are undermanned and can be pushed in. If the jungler ganks, he can have his camps/buffs stolen. The same logic applies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
A general rule is that if your team owns TOP then you might not want to push the lane very hard. They will be very tempted to send 2 or 3 dudes to slaughter you and quickly take your node too, and regain the advantage. ESPECIALLY if your team just won the top battle and enemy is respawning.
You want them to keep attacking Top while your team owns it and has the tower advantage. After you see 1 top you can push again since if 1 came to gank it would mean they were 3v4 top trying to take a tower which wastes their time.

If your team does NOT have top, this would be a great time to push. Any pressure will greatly help your toplane as you kind of WANT someone to come gank. Even if they do and you die, a quick Revive will ensure you can defend your node (as we presume you will do some dmg before you die), and most of the time you won't need it.
This gives top a 4v3 to take the node.
The only thing that should determine whether you push bottom or not is how many champions you can see. It doesn't matter if your team has windmill or not. If 4 champions are missing, don't push.


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Marasm0

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Noob here, but I've learned some concepts from people that actually know.
Jungle control: if your team has none, don't push too much, or back capping/ganks might happen and you won't have time to react.
In blind YOLO queue, odds are you'll have teams rushing top all the time; if your team is in control of the windmill, ganks are a matter of time, so pushing farther than the HP relic is risky. If the enemy team is just sitting top, that's where you should win/neutralize bot so you stop the nexus bleeding.
Also use and abuse the sweeper active to avoid ganks. You never know when someone is lurking in the bushes up there!

If I'm wrong in something, I'd appreciate the correction. Learning never ends!


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Torkable

Senior Member

05-04-2013

I would like to say that I noticed something when I first started dom and it never seemed to go away even as I climbed into the most upper reaches of elo with +30 wins over losses:
The way dom players react to unknown enemy location.
In SR or any other moba for that matter, at even simi-competent levels of play, players react fairly strongly to enemy players going missing, they move back, use any vision skills on common gank paths, refuse to get drawn into a fight with lane opponents, ect. What I'm trying to say is that players equate extreme danger to not knowing the location of even one enemy player.
Now on dom, I see players reacting in the exact opposite manner. I will look at the map and see two enemies. I then tab and see one is dead. That means two are on the map and I dont know where they are. They have top, I then see one of my allies running straight at top point all alone. I watch him die. He didn't directly see anyone guarding top so he thought it was unguarded. I know he was thinking that because I often receive insults for not charging an "unguarded" top point by myself while waiting for my team to respawn. I often see people charge after an enemy into the jungle when its clear there are at least two missing. That means there is a good chance you're about to run face first into 3 people. I'm not following you, o look now you're dead, and mad. I'm shocked.
I see this behavior in "high" elo games just as much as I did at low.
tl;dr players missing does not equal free point capture it means danger stand the **** back.


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Sauron

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Watch the minimap between minion waves and keep tabs on where enemy icons are headed. You don't need to know their spell status or health bars, just how many of them are visible and what direction they were last headed in if not visible (if they were last seen in your top jungle, they might be rotating bot to your point's top entrance).


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Eloquid

Senior Member

05-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo11 View Post
How do I improve my map awareness and how do I not push the lane as a bot laner? Cause last game I was bot (cause I like bot lane) but I cost us the game because I didn't realize someone was back capping me while I pushed the lane up I didn't mean to push the lane either it just sorta happened. Anyway the score was close and I cost us the match people had a good reason to rage at me and now I kinda feel bad. Anyway I know I post a stupid question every other day on this forum but you guys tend to have good advice so thank you so much.

You're making a mistake in thinking Dom bot lane is the exact same thing as laning on SR. Best bot laners on Dom are champs with some survivability who can push the lane like crazy at the same time, like Singed or Udyr. The whole point of bot lane is to make the enemy HAVE to gank you because they'll lose their bot if they don't. And you're thus making windmill fight 4v3 for your team. Of course, dying comes with territory, that's why you take revive. If pushing doesn't work, then stalling the lane and defending your bot is the next best thing to do. And Marasm0 and others gave good advice, the danger of pushing the bot lane depends on what's going on top and how many enemies have known location, are dead and so on.
You have to watch the map every few seconds, it's just practice.


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Nerdock

Senior Member

05-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloquid View Post
And Marasm0 and others gave good advice, the danger of pushing the bot lane depends on what's going on top and how many enemies have known location, are dead and so on.
You have to watch the map every few seconds, it's just practice.
QFT. Knowing *when* to push bot is a huge advantage. If your team has top and a few of the enemy team are missing, or even dead, generally, don't push. Them being at base, or seeing you push bot hard (thus forcing them to run down), has automatically consolidated their resources and will allow them to retaliate bot, while your team is regrouping for top/buying etc.

Generally I do my best to just hold the lane/minor harass, if we have top, and push hard if we don't. But again, that's so completely generalized; it's situational to say the least, but that's an easy rule to follow.


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