A Bot Lane Kayle Guide

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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quincunx View Post
Basically, if you're AD Kayle you don't have very many good CDR/damage options available to you, so you can buy Nashor's (which doesn't synergize too well with AD builds) or you can get punished for having a long E cooldown and a longer ult cooldown. Also, AP Kayle can win early poke wars with Q against AD Kayle. If it goes long enough, AP Kayle can buy Wooglet's and stasis through AD Kayle's ult.

I'll admit I didn't cover this very well in my guide. Sorry about that.
There are some good CDR items that synergize well with AD Kayle. She can get Brutalizer and Zeke's (eventually building Brut into Youmuu's). Those plus some runes/masteries give me about 27% CDR, which is almost enough for full uptime. Obviously, it's not optimal to not have 33% CDR (which is what's needed for full uptime on righteous fury), but it's pretty close. Not only that, but you can get a lot more sustain from an AD build than AP build since you get the benefit of lifesteal.

I don't know, I think a well played AD Kayle could give AP Kayle a run for her money. There just aren't many out there that can do it. I'm a decent Kayle, but I wouldn't consider myself a master. I do prefer AD over AP, though - I just seem to consistently do better.


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Volandum

Senior Member

02-25-2013

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Originally Posted by Quincunx View Post
I'd be up for that I think. Give me time to finish this guide and experiment some more with Kog'Maw though.
Sure, I have a few more builds to try out too!

Brutaliser + Zeke's is 30% CDR, and with CDR from the Offense tree that's 34%. With that and CDR blues that's maxed. If you're laning AD vs AP kayle, you'll probably be looking at Spirit Visage for your 20% cdr item, and picking up a brutaliser item or something. But you'll probably pick up those after a Sanguine, and before that you'll be zoned out while your E is down.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
There are some good CDR items that synergize well with AD Kayle. She can get Brutalizer and Zeke's (eventually building Brut into Youmuu's). Those plus some runes/masteries give me about 27% CDR, which is almost enough for full uptime. Obviously, it's not optimal to not have 33% CDR (which is what's needed for full uptime on righteous fury), but it's pretty close. Not only that, but you can get a lot more sustain from an AD build than AP build since you get the benefit of lifesteal.

I don't know, I think a well played AD Kayle could give AP Kayle a run for her money. There just aren't many out there that can do it. I'm a decent Kayle, but I wouldn't consider myself a master. I do prefer AD over AP, though - I just seem to consistently do better.
Brutalizer/Zeke's won't give you nearly enough damage or sustain to take on AP Kayle, though. You also need 37.5% CDR to keep Kayle's E up 100% now (make it have a 10 second cooldown).

Also, even Brutalizer/IE/Vamp scepter doesn't out-damage Nashor's/Malady (which is cheaper) on Kayle.

It's not as much of a factor in 1v1, but AD Kayle also loses a lot of her splash damage potential, since it does only magic damage and scales better with AP than with AD.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Well, I played the Draven matchup against Sauron, and I'm pretty confident Kayle wins. Just watch out for the incoming ganks and 2v1's that the enemy team sends your way.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

02-27-2013

Thanks for the guide. I agree with just about everything.

Good explanation as to why take Q over E early.

Good explanation of why AS runes are the way to go. You might add 2 other notes. First that AS is more expensive to itemize yet AS runes stayed the same, so they are a comparitvely higher value for a champ that can take advantage of them.
Secondly, AS is really hard to itemize nowdays esp with AP other than malady/nashers.

I wish Sweeper could be core, but it doesnt play nicely with your CDR options. 10% movespeed is HUUGE and its a very efficient item and its active can sometimes give you a heads up on ganks. But you'd have to take CDR runes/masteries instead of MR/lvl, OR commit to DFG.

Alternative to a second CDR item is Ionic boots. That plus the 4% mastery plus nashers = extremely fast and cheap CDR maxed. I'd kind of expect Sorc Shoes to be a given though as the MPen I would think would be better than anything else.


"Unfortunately, flat MR reduction doesn't play too nicely with Void Staff. ". be sure to update statements like this. I would also reconsider void staff. Very few take MR nowdays with the default 50 to 100 MR being the norm. An abyssal scepter will provide similar damage increase in most cases while giving a big chunk of MR for very little extra cost.
With Abyssal, Sorc Shoes, Guise/BFT thats 50 penetration, on top of your 8% and I think 10% from dominion is still present.


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Volandum

Senior Member

02-27-2013

I find plenty of champions build MR, and Dominion no longer has a penetration aura.

Once you've built Nashor's, look into Zephyr as an AS/Tenacity item if you find it difficult to itemise AS. If you no longer need CDR Lich Bane is actually a strong Burst AND DPS item.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Thanks for the guide. I agree with just about everything.

Good explanation as to why take Q over E early.

Good explanation of why AS runes are the way to go. You might add 2 other notes. First that AS is more expensive to itemize yet AS runes stayed the same, so they are a comparitvely higher value for a champ that can take advantage of them.
Secondly, AS is really hard to itemize nowdays esp with AP other than malady/nashers.

I wish Sweeper could be core, but it doesnt play nicely with your CDR options. 10% movespeed is HUUGE and its a very efficient item and its active can sometimes give you a heads up on ganks. But you'd have to take CDR runes/masteries instead of MR/lvl, OR commit to DFG.

Alternative to a second CDR item is Ionic boots. That plus the 4% mastery plus nashers = extremely fast and cheap CDR maxed. I'd kind of expect Sorc Shoes to be a given though as the MPen I would think would be better than anything else.


"Unfortunately, flat MR reduction doesn't play too nicely with Void Staff. ". be sure to update statements like this. I would also reconsider void staff. Very few take MR nowdays with the default 50 to 100 MR being the norm. An abyssal scepter will provide similar damage increase in most cases while giving a big chunk of MR for very little extra cost.
With Abyssal, Sorc Shoes, Guise/BFT thats 50 penetration, on top of your 8% and I think 10% from dominion is still present.
Those can be good points for AS runes. Keep in mind that even though AS got devalued, so did magic pen (they did get slightly nerfed, but not by much, and they also surpasses AS in damage output once you get void staff). I mainly get them because they make my early game feel better. I wouldn't necessarily say AS is hard to itemize for, since Nashor's is core, and Berserker's and Malady are pretty good on Kayle (though I've been leaning more towards Sorc's recently).

I don't like Ionian boots, simply because I'm almost always going to get at least one item that gives 10-20% CDR after Nashor's. One of my favorites if I'm not getting BFT is Sweeper, as you mentioned. Its active is amazing for chasing people through bushes bottom lane. I don't really mind sitting at 30% CDR against most laners, as your E is almost at 100% uptime at that point. Sometimes I grab a simple codex to max CDR if I'm working on another item.

Flat MR reduction takes place before percent magic penetration, so you'll find your 20 magic reduction turning into the equivalent of 12 magic penetration if you go for Void Staff. I think you'll find that pretty much everybody that lanes against Kayle buys MR to help survive, just as you'll probably buy the necessary resist to lane against your opponent as Kayle. Also, as long as your opponent has more than 50 MR (the two options are the same up to that point), Void staff + double pen will penetrate MORE MR than Abyssal + double pen will.

I actually won a Diana mirror matchup yesterday because we both rushed a negatron, but I built a void staff immediately afterwards while she built hers into an Abyssal. At that point we both had around 100 MR, but I was penetrating her down to around 40 while she was penetrating me down around 60.


As for Volandum, I know you love Zephyr, but if I want tenacity I usually want it really early (like against Nunu), so Zephyr would probably have to replace Nashor's (which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it gives less CDR and AD instead of AP). Meh. As a late-game item, I'm not sure. Malady tends to give way more damage for less cost, so it depends on just how much you value the MS + Tenacity on Kayle.


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Foxley

Senior Member

03-02-2013

I was not expecting such an in depth guide for Dominion. Freaking kudos.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Thanks, Foxley!


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Quincunx

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Hey, my guide finally got featured, and instantly I picked up 2 downvotes! Glad to see Dominion hate is going strong.