Why is Ryze always <50%?

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TealNinje

Senior Member

02-21-2013

I'd like to point out that some champions who are highly susceptible to counters, like Ryze, won't be picked unless they have a strong matchup.

At least in Platinum and up.


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

02-21-2013

it's cause he's a single target apc which is a bad thing in season 3 where it's alot easier to deal damage rather then defend it via items due to penetration changes and the new items. in season 2 he was amazing cause u could build him tanky and still dish out alot of damage but in season 3 armor gets melted so fast and not having aoes makes it hard for him to be useful in team fights until later on.


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mrdude5410

Senior Member

02-21-2013

He's seen as a safe or easy champ so a lot of people play him when they don't usually play mid but have to fill.


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Deep Sea Dingo

Member

02-21-2013

Remove Ryze from the game.



ps. NERF RYZE


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ofart

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Ryze is a lot harder to play than people think if you want to make the most of his spell combos. For instance, with 8% CDR you should combo QWEQ if slightly farther range or QEWQ if closer range. However, with 40% CDR QEQWQ is a superior rotation. In a teamfight, you should extend it farther and wait a little like Q/R/wait/Q/E/wait/Q/W/wait/Q. You should also do it fast enough that the R applies to the Q. Being able to do this in a split second and alternating each combo appropriately based on both your intention and CDR level has to be ingrained at the level of muscle memory. Unfortunately, it's hard to get good practice doing this. I've tried bot matches but even those end too early and I hate having to farm just to test my rotations.

There are also some things I just don't know even now. For example, how long is the mr reduction from E and does it matter if you use QWQEQ or QEQWQ when you have 40% CDR or does it apply all at once? What about QWEQ vs QEWQ?

Anyway, I find Ryze very easy to pick up the basics for but very hard to really play well and I'd like to get better. Does anyone have some video links to top Ryze players (if there are any that actually main Ryze)? I'm thinking that these sorts of nuances are part of why Ryze is <50% even in Platinum. After all, if you get a combo wrong it can completely throw off your rotation, giving significantly reduced damage.Thanks!


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofart View Post
Ryze is a lot harder to play than people think if you want to make the most of his spell combos. For instance, with 8% CDR you should combo QWEQ if slightly farther range or QEWQ if closer range. However, with 40% CDR QEQWQ is a superior rotation. In a teamfight, you should extend it farther and wait a little like Q/R/wait/Q/E/wait/Q/W/wait/Q. You should also do it fast enough that the R applies to the Q. Being able to do this in a split second and alternating each combo appropriately based on both your intention and CDR level has to be ingrained at the level of muscle memory. Unfortunately, it's hard to get good practice doing this. I've tried bot matches but even those end too early and I hate having to farm just to test my rotations.

There are also some things I just don't know even now. For example, how long is the mr reduction from E and does it matter if you use QWQEQ or QEQWQ when you have 40% CDR or does it apply all at once? What about QWEQ vs QEWQ?

Anyway, I find Ryze very easy to pick up the basics for but very hard to really play well and I'd like to get better. Does anyone have some video links to top Ryze players (if there are any that actually main Ryze)? I'm thinking that these sorts of nuances are part of why Ryze is <50% even in Platinum. After all, if you get a combo wrong it can completely throw off your rotation, giving significantly reduced damage.Thanks!
Depending how tanky you are and if you can play calmly and collected, an excellent combo is Q W lichbane Q E lichbane Q R lichbane Q W lichbane Q E lichbane Q. If you panic you tend to mash all the keys, a little more burst in the moment but then you are on full cooldown, nothing to proc lichbane, and relying on the raw AD and proc from your muramana. You may take a little bit of burst, but remember you are moderately tanky, and will gain massive healing once you start your R. Calm down and pace your skills.

I find ryze to be an OP lategame hypercarry. He works insanely well on anything but Dominion. (if Nome would get on those faster tear items like he said before Ryze could become viable there too).


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Troy242621

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Well I'll throw it out there. He is an EXTREMELY cheap champion. He's recommended and used in the tutorial. I'd wager he has a fairly low win rate because new players are naturally attracted to him.

Not THE REASON, but just another contributing factor. Easy accessibility is a very potent motivator, especially when you just started playing.


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ofart

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kholdstare13 View Post
Depending how tanky you are and if you can play calmly and collected, an excellent combo is Q W lichbane Q E lichbane Q R lichbane Q W lichbane Q E lichbane Q. If you panic you tend to mash all the keys, a little more burst in the moment but then you are on full cooldown, nothing to proc lichbane, and relying on the raw AD and proc from your muramana. You may take a little bit of burst, but remember you are moderately tanky, and will gain massive healing once you start your R. Calm down and pace your skills.

I find ryze to be an OP lategame hypercarry. He works insanely well on anything but Dominion. (if Nome would get on those faster tear items like he said before Ryze could become viable there too).
Lichbane is uncharacteristic but it does reduce your tankiness and the AP is most useful for Spell Flux. You could try something similar with Iceborn Gauntlet. I'll give Lichbane a shot though. I always like to experiment with new strategies.

Your combo is interesting assuming you have time to get away with it. I've always started QR in a teamfight but unless I was being focused, a lot of the healing from R was going to waste. Still, with Ryze's short range and thus the high probability of dying from focused fire, it's high risk-high reward. You may also be letting your allies to die by delaying your damage so much (E & W requires some waiting).

I think Ryze is one of the best duelists in the game and a venerable foe in the endgame. However, his lack of AOE without the ultimate does concern me in teamfights. I actually think a champion like Singed may be stronger in teamfights despite being weaker in 1vs1 since his poison and slow are both AOE and he's more proficient in chasing down fleeing enemies. I'd say the same for Karthus and I'm sure there are others but these are the champs I'm familiar with.

Quote:
Well I'll throw it out there. He is an EXTREMELY cheap champion. He's recommended and used in the tutorial. I'd wager he has a fairly low win rate because new players are naturally attracted to him.
This neatly explains his winrate for Bronze and Silver players but he still scores ~45-47% in Platinum+ despite being played 11-12% over tens of thousands of games for several years. Platinum+ players tend to take the game seriously enough not to play champions they aren't accustomed to.

The fact that he's cheap as well as very old should actually make him stronger at higher levels. It suggests more players had the opportunity to practice with him and for longer because the cost wasn't prohibitive even when they were level 7.

Still, perhaps Ryze isn't a great generalist champion but is strong primarily in a few team compositions. For instance, maybe he's really good in the tankier team comps. where he's more likely to be able to unload an extended combo before the team dies. He'd probably be great with Singed because his lack of mobility and range would be less of an issue. Singed slows everyone down with Rylai's + Mega Adhesive so they can't run away from Ryze very easily and can't get in a good position to focus him. Singed also tanks for the team keeping everyone alive as Ryze continues his massive sustained damage. If the Singed is really good, he may be able to fling the ADC to Ryze's range right after he uses Mega Adhesive. Moreover, by the time most of the team dies, Singed and Ryze would probably still survive due to their tankier builds so Singed can slow fleeing enemies to allow Ryze to catch-up and finish them. Again, there are probably synergies with other champs but I only speak from what I know.

Similarly, maybe most teams treat Ryze like a typical AP mid and don't understand that he can't push his lane easily and thus is much more restricted in his roaming/ganking while also being more vulnerable to it due to his lack of escapes outside of flash. Again though, I wouldn't expect this to be an issue at higher levels. This is why I really want to see some pro games where Ryze is played.

BTW: Another curiosity for a different thread is why Rumble's played relatively infrequently despite consistently having a 56% winrate and doing fantastic even at high levels.


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Schmegus

Junior Member

02-25-2013

Range is to short, really easy to play against


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ofart

Senior Member

02-26-2013

It's not much but I run Summoner's Insight & Mastermind to try and alleviate this issue by reducing the cooldown on Flash. If you Flash into them and Rune Prison, the range issue is mitigated. The downside is of course that you'll take damage and place yourself farther from safety while reducing your only escape mechanism. However, it will lead to kills for many <65% hp foes.


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