What is ELO hell?

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Azullo

Member

04-21-2012

Elo hell exist by people just hitting level 30, and becuase they went 5-5-2 one game. they think they are ready for ranked games. then get in there, and just have absolutely no clue on what is going on, what they should be doing, and what any of the lingo is, "leash, gank, bait, and so on." It's not impossible to get out, just really hard. just practice, improve your own game, you will get paired with decent people, just make good use of them. work as a team, and don't rage. and when you do get feeders or trolls, just recover next time you play. It's true you can go 20-2 and still lose cuz the rest of your team is 0-10. Just gotta think positive.


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Nerahmat

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Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by terembura View Post
- Someone with 100 played ranked match with 50/50 win/loss has 1200 Elo.
Nope.jpg

You forgot to account for the fact that being dead even with wins and losses actually could go on either side of 1200, as winning early will put you significantly above 1200 and losing early will put you significantly below 1200. The order of your wins/losses has effect on your elo. I cannot fathom a possible order of arrangement for wins and losses to average out to 1200, as the formula is not simply W/L with 1200 set as 1.0


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MaroBaro

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistWrist View Post
Elo system is fine for multiplayer games. People that complain about the system are inherently wrong in how they look at it. They constantly pick and complain about the small times where someone doesn't deserve a win or loss. But Elo has always been a probability based system.

Even in 1v1 Chess, one match doesn't tell you who the better player is. So all the "blah blah Elo is for Chess/1v1!" just shows a lack of understanding of math and Elo.

Especially the Law of large numbers.
That is not really true. There is no randomness in chess. A better chess player will always win against a worse chess player. And yes one match does tell you who the better player is between the two players. But if both players played enough matches with a lot of other players you can actually tell who the better player is without them even playing a game.

Point is that there is a lot more randomness in LoL and it is not only your teammates. There is randomness in the positioning for picking champions which can
A)make you unable to play the role you are best at
B)you can get counter picked which will affect the ELO between and your lane opponent for the game.

Now in chess there is no fog of war, there are no extra pieces suddenly coming in and tilting the battle such as karthus, shen, and soraka's ulti. So the point is that ELO is good for a 1v1 game with no randomness or very little randomness. I am a magic the gathering player and they used to do ELO and now changed it to a lot better system because of the inherent randomness of magic the gathering made it really hard for people to get and especially keep ELO scores high.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

04-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroBaro View Post
That is not really true. There is no randomness in chess. A better chess player will always win against a worse chess player. And yes one match does tell you who the better player is between the two players. But if both players played enough matches with a lot of other players you can actually tell who the better player is without them even playing a game.

Point is that there is a lot more randomness in LoL and it is not only your teammates. There is randomness in the positioning for picking champions which can
A)make you unable to play the role you are best at
B)you can get counter picked which will affect the ELO between and your lane opponent for the game.

Now in chess there is no fog of war, there are no extra pieces suddenly coming in and tilting the battle such as karthus, shen, and soraka's ulti. So the point is that ELO is good for a 1v1 game with no randomness or very little randomness. I am a magic the gathering player and they used to do ELO and now changed it to a lot better system because of the inherent randomness of magic the gathering made it really hard for people to get and especially keep ELO scores high.
Your argument is basically LoL is not Chess so Chess Elo doesn't work.

No duh at LoL will never be Chess.

But they aren't using the exact same Elo system either.

You know why you think Elo is only good for a 1v1 game with no randomness? Because it fits your argument.

It still displays the same lack of understanding of mathematics and rules of large numbers. There is still no absolute reason why a truly superior player will consistently be on an inferior team.

I also like the completely weak argument with Magic the Gathering's system change is a defense that Elo system doesn't work in a random environment. When if you read the reasoning for the change, it is simpler. The change rewards people just for playing in sanctioned events more often. And they never lose points which some people find less offensive. Inherently, the system doesn't focus on trying to estimate skill but rather promote more sanctioned play and not making people feel bad when they lose.

Additionally, your argument that the better player will always win over a weaker player is flatout wrong. If it were true, all Chess tournaments would only be single match plays. They aren't.


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DarkLilithMale

Member

05-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azullo View Post
Elo hell exist by people just hitting level 30, and becuase they went 5-5-2 one game. they think they are ready for ranked games. then get in there, and just have absolutely no clue on what is going on, what they should be doing, and what any of the lingo is, "leash, gank, bait, and so on." It's not impossible to get out, just really hard. just practice, improve your own game, you will get paired with decent people, just make good use of them. work as a team, and don't rage. and when you do get feeders or trolls, just recover next time you play. It's true you can go 20-2 and still lose cuz the rest of your team is 0-10. Just gotta think positive.
Ya, it is quite sad seeing new players. I ran into some guy who didnt know what oom meant..

It can get horrid at the lower ELO. Ive been going back and forth between 570 and 780 for the last month. The horribleness of players are getting worse. Ive seen nothing but horrid teamwork, and stupid decisions like overextending early or attacking an entire team 1v5.

The worst, and funniest, one was watching four players on my team get slaughtered by two enemies. I was rammus defending against Shen top while that happened mid. I ended up being blamed for "not assisting the team" when I was defending a tower waiting for assistance myself... freaking nubs.


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CaitlynsPanties

Senior Member

05-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal Culprit View Post
It is a term describing that once you hit low ELO in solo ranked games (Might apply slightly to normal games as well, but you can't see your ELO there), it's very hard and frustrating to get out of because of continuous feeders, AFKers and leavers.
I would say that this is the original definition. Now people use it more interchangeably with you capping off at a certain ELO and cry that they're in ELO hell.


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

05-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaitlynsPanties View Post
I would say that this is the original definition. Now people use it more interchangeably with you capping off at a certain ELO and cry that they're in ELO hell.
That's the 'original definition,' but it's also the current definition. (Yes, they're the dame **** thing.)

Players who can't get out of 'Elo Hell' are their own worst enemy. Sometimes it's they don't realize they're also making a ton of mistakes. Sometimes they need to play differently to adapt to the 'current Elo' they're in (and yes, adapting is a skill one needs to be successful in LoL). Sometimes they were carried to a higher Elo before they dropped to their current Elo and think their 'highest Elo' was their true Elo. Sometimes...

Meh, Elo Hell as players believe it to be is a myth, it's merely a self-fulfilling prophecy as players stop trying to win because they spend the entire game blaming their team (both unconsciously and consciously).


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tSoutSou

Junior Member

05-31-2012

I'm not one of the best players...I cannot make the difference in my team,but elo hell does exist!yes it exists,but it needs a method and some luck to get out before it's too late...
I know what i can do out there,my elo must be around 1300 idk really...i fell to 900 elo,losing 26 ranked in a row!i read forums and articles which said take a player,master him,and u will climb...i mastered yorick,played around 40 games in a row with him...i found myself zoning so hard the opponent that they had to camp at top lane...with him i climbed back to were i started...1100 elo...now it's ok i'm playing as amumu/skarner and managed to climb to 1220...and i keep going...
the method is to master a solo top,climb in elo that u can trust ur team and then roam it out as a jungler....and keep going...


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Aggressive Ewe

Senior Member

05-31-2012

ELO hell is where LOLSatan lives with his creeps. It's where the Creep Waves come from.

As with any ranking system made for one thing and used for another there's problems. What we refer to as ELO hell is actually the manifestation of the problem. ELO heaven, the would be opposite, actually rides on the same concept though it's never a "bad" thing but if someone were to, and someone has probably, by luck constantly run into good luck with wins their ELO has risen regardless of their skill thus giving them perpetually good teams even if they themselves are bad. Given they don't feed ELO heaven is sustainable.

Getting into and out of ELO is not hard so long as you stick to simple mechanics like Ashe where you slow and shoot and do this over and over and over and over again building a ton of stupidly placed AD until you dominate everyone. Stick together. Do it up. Also helps if you know everyone you're actually playing with and play Drafts so you know genuinely who you are against.


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ICastShadows

Senior Member

05-31-2012

It's an excuse people use to justify not being in the top 25% of LoL players