[Discussion] Uldyr Builds

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reks

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentClagg View Post
Okay here is a question. Is on hit the same as physical attack? What I mean is some items such as the Phange reads on hit which would obviously only trigger off the first attack in tiger stance. However, do things like Wit's End which reads "Physical Attacks remove up to 42 mana from the target and deal additional damage equal to the amount of mana removed." trigger off just the 1st or all 3 attacks?

If there is a difference then an attack speed capped Udyr could dish out 7.5 attacks per second meaning:

Wit's End - 315 mana burned per second
Atma's Impaler - 15% of your max health in dps
Cap out Rageblade or Black Cleaver in 1 second

Along with a host of other items. Just don't know if Tiger restriction is ONLY on hit or physical attacks in general.
all on hit/attack effects are triggered by the first hit on tiger

think there's a bug right now that splits the damage proc from madred so it's only 1/3 effective


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BrentClagg

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Recruiter

12-03-2009

@reks
Well if that is indeed the case then the Tiamat is useless on him? You also mentioned say crits do not occur on the 2nd and 3rd hit? That sounds like they would not gain lifesteal either.

If this is true then being in Tiger stance actually hurts your champion despite the attack speed increase.


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reks

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentClagg View Post
@reks
Well if that is indeed the case then the Tiamat is useless on him? You also mentioned say crits do not occur on the 2nd and 3rd hit? That sounds like they would not gain lifesteal either.

If this is true then being in Tiger stance actually hurts your champion despite the attack speed increase.
right, the only thing tiger is good for is the attack speed increase and the activation proc (that + sheen is pretty beast). it more than likely wouldn't gain lifesteal.

tiamat + bear might be interesting though, was going to try that out later today


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jonodaman

Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcata View Post
but 1v1 he's probably the most dangerous Champion to face.
Lol, not sure about that fulcata

I've had a few prac games, and 4 normals, 2 as a feeder, and last 2 with more kills than deaths, so mixed...
Personally i think his skills are very situational, more than most other heroes. ie:
in a fight - turtle + phoenix (or bear if your life is still good and you think stuns would be more useful)
chasing after a fight - bear + phoenix
running from a fight - turtle + bear
towering - tiger

My problem with tiger in a fight is i like lifesteal on this guy, and i don't mean turtle, and with tiger on, you only get 1/3 as much lifesteal as with no stance on, which is ridiculous. The only decent udyr's I've seen have always had an early trinity force, that's me and enemy udyr's, because his main problems are - aspd to keep phoenix procs, move speed since he hasn't got great chasers/escapes, which trinity gives, and the addition of the sheen effect.
Personally phoenix is the allround dmg farm skill, so i start with that. then you just have to go situationally - if you maxed bear phoenix, you're a chaser to finish ganks.
If you maxed phoenix turtle, you're kinda intiator dmg in a fight, then run your ass out of there. Tiger has only got usefulness against towers imho, even with the extra dmg, doesn't work for me as I do lifesteal item build.

Also, most champs are ready to get into a fight or kill by lvl 6, but with udyr i think he should stay out till about lvl 10, jus farm till then. when he has 2 skills almost maxed, then he starts to be useful, but only in the role that those 2 skills allow eg. phoenix and bear lets u fight towards 2nd half of a fight and chase.

Cd reduction? don't know about that, maybe just a bit, like a golem buff.. its 8s cd's, and you can cast usually 2 stances till the first one is back for you... since sheen/trinity/lich proc every 3s, then cd reduction to 6s for stances (runes and golem) would be more than enough.

And Fjall, tiger is ok in itself for aspd, I just work with lifesteal/aspd items, which don't synergise with tiger, but i'm open to trying a good tiger stance build, just let me know
Just a few thoughts.


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Ad Astra per Asp

Senior Member

12-03-2009

I love how so many ppl can not do basic math.

Tiger passive nets you more chance for killing blows, imo. It does NOT make it so you get more dmg reduction. Math tards, it is time you use a calculator.

60 base damage against an opponent with 20% dmg reduction.

Tiger passives makes 3 hits of 20.

20 * .8 = 16
so the three hits net 48 damage

60 * .8 = 48.
so the one hit nets 48 damage.

Wow. Hard.

Also, for gods sake. Increased attack speed is part of the passive.

It is also deceptive, the active is a dot and now your attacks are a dot as well.


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ikkifury

Junior Member

12-03-2009

Phoenixs stance pwns

just get these items

nashors tooth
boots of swiftness
lichbanes
guinsoo rageblade
rylais scepter
warmogs armor

ur phoenixs stance will have some unbelieveable dmg 0.0 also with ur turtle stance


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FearAndLoathing

Junior Member

12-03-2009

I've been doing a Pheonix/Bear Stance build (primarily) where my item order is:
1. Boots
2. Frozen Mallet
3. Sheen
4. Maldreds Bloodrazer
5. Merc Treds (from boots)
6. Been messing around with what to put here, still not entirely sure.
7. Tri-Force (from sheen)

How would you guys modify this? Any suggestions for item slots 5 and 6?


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Commadore

Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by reks View Post
only first hit crits
All three hits in tiger do critical damage, but only the first one has the big flashy "critical" effect.


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Sc2ggRise

Member

12-03-2009

i agree with parts of what everyone has said so far... having played him a whopping 2x. once being a feeder, once 5/4/7, and I kept track of what the Udyr's on the other team did as well and noted their successes/failures.

tiger = great for last hitting EARLY ON, like first 4 levels. at level 1 i would get this or turtle, and get the other at level 2. but i hardly found much benefit in switching to this stance later in the game. i think if all 3 hit's proc'd crits/abilities, this would be a great skill. until then, it's an early game LH for me.

turtle = i didn't really use this enough later in the game since I was focusing on DPS... but early game a point or two will keep you alive longer vs ...everyone else in the game.

bear = all around good stance, start getting this at the mid levels to help with ganks, especially since Udyr makes particularly good bait. bait, stun, run, wait til they switch focus to someone else, run back, stun, pheonix.

pheonix = i really felt this was more of a late game skill. basically, it helps do *some* burst DPS with some AS thrown in your items. this is also the farm skill to be using past level 5-6 since you will start doing significantly more damage to minions by this point (hopefully) and you can farm very effectively.

my build:
Tiger (usually the other players aren't too aggressive at level one, feel free to switch with turtle if you feel otherwise)
Turtle
Bear (jut incase you happen to be able to stun a target for the kill early)
Pheonix
Pheonix/Bear
Pheonix/Bear
Pheonix/Bear
Turtle
Pheonix/Bear
Pheonix/Bear
Pheonix/Bear
Turtle
Tiger (useless)
Tiger (useless)
Tiger (useless)

Pheonix/bear because it depended on the farming situation. Non-aggressive players? Pheonix away. Your team wants to gank a lot? Bear it up. It really is all about switching stances though, regardless of what you do which means you need to be very aware of your situation at all times.

Late game I found I primarily used Bear/pheonix stance dancing to chase enemies + burst some DPS. In the end, I was mildly effective at doing so because this guy seems to be so item dependent and you can only chase so far before they all kill you. He's definitely a non-tanking support character.

I tried the sheen/Attack power build over an ability build due to the redonkulous scaling of ability power (srsly?). Also, frozen mallet helped with chasing.

My non-professional opinion on improvements to Udyr: He needs an AP scaling buff + tiger proc buff to be a viable champion. Arguably a turtle buff as well to give him more survivability vs ...everyone else in the game (specifically everyone with a non-melee move) - something along the lines of an Ank. Absorbs X dmg & 1 negative spell? I don't know.


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jonodaman

Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikkifury View Post
Phoenixs stance pwns

just get these items

nashors tooth
boots of swiftness
lichbanes
guinsoo rageblade
rylais scepter
warmogs armor

ur phoenixs stance will have some unbelieveable dmg 0.0 also with ur turtle stance
It sounds good, but i have a question: did you farm this up in a normal game with lvl 20+ players, or was this in a practice game or pub with <lvl20 players? I've wondered about guinsoo's, but by the time u get nashors and swifts, how would you hold up in teamfights? sounds like it would take too long to farm, or rely on your team to support you till you're ready... I find boots tri-force and cheap lifesteal item, and you're in mid game at least, with big teamfights and things. Well done if it was in a pro game though.


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