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Live Design - PBE context thread for 2/15/2013

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Akava

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
RadicalEdward4th:
By nerfing Taric's supporting ability (both early and late game), and then adding incentive to build non-support items, I'm thinking people won't bother taking him bot. Even if you want to support with him, you need to stack absurd amounts of armor to be equal to what he was before, its weaker early game and unlikely to compare late game especially with a support build.

So what if everyone just takes him top or jungle and builds manamune and sunfire, will you just leave him as a bruiser or try and force him back into support? I just really don't want to see him become a gimped champ that doesn't really fit any role, especially considering this is coming off being the best all around support in the game.


Bulwark and Omen. You are now an armored up badass and have two very powerful support items.


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ParagonShepard

Member

02-15-2013

So since you seem to be trying to get Bortk to replace PD and Shiv, what's the point of keeping healing on it? Wouldn't that make carry players think it competes with Bloodthirster? Also, since it doesn't add crit how is it expected to compete against PD and Shiv other than attackspeed? Wouldn't the AD that buys this be lacking late game?

Another thing about Bortk is that you're killing its usage on champions that don't want attackspeed (Zed, Lee Sin). Aren't you worried about it being too specialized?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

02-15-2013

Quote:

Another thing about Bortk is that you're killing its usage on champions that don't want attackspeed (Zed, Lee Sin). Aren't you worried about it being too specialized?


Super Extra Blunt Midnight Edition Alpha Ex Turbo: If you're not auto-attacking on those champions, especially Lee Sin, who has infinite energy when you auto attack you are doing it wrong.

Going back to work now.

Warning - I'm not going to respond to this thread after this point - Mostly because PBE patches come as quickly as we can deliver them and thus it tends to work out better if I watch / test / iterate changes rather than keep explaining them.

Feel free to drop feedback - it will get read.


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Noric

Senior Member

02-15-2013

All 3 of the champions that are having their AS/lvl modified are becoming the new top 3 lvl 18 base AS champs


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BlargCow

Senior Member

02-16-2013

garen nerfs are unnecessary. he's not even on the same level as the more popular bruisers right now. at least buff his pitiful base armor if you're going to remove the one thing that justified it being so low


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Taoist Magic

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:

Taric

* Shatter no longer gives a flat 10-30 armor aura, instead radiating X% of Taric's armor to allies.
* Shatter has an armor scaling damage ratio.
* Taric's passive changed to deal X% of his maximum mana as bonus damage.


Taric is a generalist support pick that has a success rate far far far above his compatriots at the moment. We have a couple options on where to go with him at this point - but in general, Taric suffers from being a generalist lane bully to transitioning to a walking ball of aura statistics for his team.

This tends to lead to Taric feeling like he does very little overall to the team - even if he is adding something like 1000 Gold to everyone's base statistics.

Keep in mind, we're still heavily iterating the numbers on him. In the end, Taric should be a compelling pick if you are facing a heavy attack damage team and we'll adjust the aura value until he fits that mold.

Taric's base AD reduction is mostly compensate for his passive attack damage which is still undergoing numerical tuning.


Taric does tend to feel too strong in lane
But I have to disagree about feeling like I do little later in the game.
A targeted on command stun is very powerful.

When there is a Taric on the other team, and I'm an AD assassin...I feel useless.
bulwark + aura is so much free armor.

Plus with the current meta of bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ad carry...MOST teams are going to be heavy attack damage.

Then the match turns into a huge game of cat and mouse with armor and armor pen, black cleaver, last whisper, etc.

What I would do, to solve the lane bully problem, is to increase the mana cost and CD of his rank 1 stun.
That way, counterplay to bait out the stun is more effective


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RadicalEdward4th

Junior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:
The benefit of being the best all-around support in the game is that, even if you get nerfed, you go from 'best all-around support' to 'a good support comparable with others.'

Fair enough, I guess wanting to take away some of his incredible versatility is justified. Its just that the additions remind me of the great AP rations that mage supports had which ended up putting them into an identity crisis followed by more nerfs.

Trying to reward support champs for their stats while not incentivising them to just go crazy stacking them is tricky business.


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Noric

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Taoist Magic:
Taric does tend to feel too strong in lane
But I have to disagree about feeling like I do little later in the game.
A targeted on command stun is very powerful.

When there is a Taric on the other team, and I'm an AD assassin...I feel useless.
bulwark + aura is so much free armor.

Plus with the current meta of bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ad carry...MOST teams are going to be heavy attack damage.

Then the match turns into a huge game of cat and mouse with armor and armor pen, black cleaver, last whisper, etc.

What I would do, to solve the lane bully problem, is to increase the mana cost and CD of his rank 1 stun.

If you read what he said - none it has nothing to do with actually power and more to do with perception. If they are nerfing a support's hidden power throughout the game - it gives them an opportunity to buff the "active" power that champion has throughout the game.


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Kumamon JPN

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Before you fix anything I think you would need to fix Vampiric Scepter, it is overpriced and creates an unnecessary gap for upgrading. It's also the reason some of the items being not so cost-efficient to the players. Lantern for example, there is no reason to upgrade it from razor at all, it's just not worth it. Why would I spend 900g for 10% lifesteal and 15 dmg instead of say, 200hp w/10% cdr or save up 100g more and get 400hp straight up?


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:
Super Extra Blunt Midnight Edition Alpha Ex Turbo: If you're not auto-attacking on those champions, especially Lee Sin, who has infinite energy when you auto attack you are doing it wrong.

Going back to work now.

Warning - I'm not going to respond to this thread after this point - Mostly because PBE patches come as quickly as we can deliver them and thus it tends to work out better if I watch / test / iterate changes rather than keep explaining them.

Feel free to drop feedback - it will get read.

Re Zed: can you consider changing his E to be ideal max ability instead of just taking power away from it? Right now it's in a weird spot with E having highest base/second (max it first) AND highest ratio/second (max it last). Q feels kind of lame given that you need to hit 3 of them at once to do reasonable burst with it right now.