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Live Design - PBE context thread for 2/15/2013

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ThaddeusMike

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:

The benefit of being the best all-around support in the game is that, even if you get nerfed, you go from 'best all-around support' to 'a good support comparable with others.'


Really? You know this isn't true and you know why. Sona got nerfed from best to bad pick. I don't think these will take Taric off the face of the earth, but that isn't a sound principle.

However, my real problem is that I don't see why you picked the changes you did. You gave him more damage on his auto attack. It's nice that you gave him a passive, but it isn't a good support passive. You made his aura scale off of his armor, which just boggles the mind. That doesn't make sense as a support ability. As far as I can tell, you made Taric top a bit more playable (bonus damage) at the cost of making Taric support's kit make no sense as a support (scaling off his own armor? using shatter hurts the aura. Maybe I can see that as trying to add decision making, but it seems like it really hurts clarity of purpose). You added scaling in places where supports usually don't scale well and hurt clarity of purpose on shatter. Nerfing Taric is something I don't argue with, changing his passive I don't argue with, but the way in which you did these things really hurts Taric's chances at having a unified, unique, play style.


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deathmage390

Senior Member

02-20-2013

if i may ask why is there NO life steal on BoTK (not including active) when cutlass still has a vamp scepter in the build?


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BoozBear

Senior Member

02-22-2013

So are you increasing the CD on spirit of dread or has that being dropped?


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Xengre

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Xypherous:

Blade of the Ruined King

Recipe: Cutlass + Dagger + Dagger + 500 Gold = 2700 Gold total from 2850 Gold on live.

* 45 AD --> 30 AD
* 0% AS --> 40% AS
* 10% LS --> 0% LS
* Passive now heals you for 30% of your total attack damage, rather than 50% of the damage dealt. This is essentially premitigation lifesteal.
* Active slow/speed duration is now 4 seconds from 2 seconds.
* Active now deals 100 + 10% of the targets maximum life - serving as an execute or a wind-up peel
* Range increased to 550 from 400.

Numbers still need further tuning.

So our problems with the previous iteration of the PBE BoRK was that it still suffered from a number of cross-purposes. This version is most likely way too mathy to be entirely elegant - ideally we'd find a more elegant phrasing of it - but this is kind of the sledgehammer approach. We'll probably try to find ways to refine it.

Essentially, the problem with the 'sustain-tank' approach that the old BoRK was after was simply it gave you the sustain frequently at a time where you didn't need it and as you got low. By the time you wound up needing the sustain near the end of the fight, the item simply didn't give you any sustain - hence the move towards a more flattened sustain approach.

The active is either an execute for those close fights and then further MS to capitalize on cleaning up the fight - or a mid-fight kiting tool.

The approach here is to move BoRK away from being a primary damage slot item and into your attack speed slot as a Carry. BoRK should be ideally competing with your 2nd major multiplicative item, like Shiv or Phantom Dancer - rather than your first big damage item.

Also - I am now deathly scared of Irelia - but at the very least she's not assassinating squishies exponentially faster than tanks with it.


To be fair... this isn't an entirely accurate representation of the problem with BotRK. This post makes me question if Riot even understood the core problem it suffered. The main issue was that it was simply worthless when compared to BT. In almost any scenario BT either ties with it or beats it making it just as good or better.

When you start factoring in the HP stacking meta things still don't look any better because only one person is going to have enough HP on the team for it to be worth anything, at which point it will still barely beat BT. By the time you get to that person, because you will target them last as the tanky, their HP will be too low from misc. AoE/hits to be able to out perform BT making the real world scenario almost permanently worse in 100% applications. The other 4 players on the team? Yeah... it loses to BT against since they don't have such immense HP.

A common misconception was the line to draw where it starts dealing more dmg then BT... the real comparison value is when it actually takes less hits to kill a target from full to zero compared to BT.


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Nubyah

Junior Member

02-26-2013

dont you think BOTRK will be OP on volibear ??