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Live Design - PBE context thread for 2/15/2013

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Xypherous

Systems Designer

02-15-2013

Hey, I'll be talking briefly about the major changes in today's PBE patch to give you an idea of where we're going and what we're experimenting with so that you guys will be both less confused and more informed about the changes we're currently tinkering with.

Keep in mind that everything in PBE is experimental and subject to change but as time goes on - I'd like to try to explain some of the more possibly confusing / relevant stuff or stuff that might not be immediately apparent on first glance.

Hopefully I'll get to do these explanations a little more often - I won't do my usual long Q&A at this time since a lot of this stuff is experimental and is subject to further tuning - mostly because testing turns out to be a lot more effective than discussion most of the time.

So let's start:

Bilgewater Cutlass

Recipe: Long Sword + Vamp Sceptre + 200 Gold = 1400 Gold total from 1950 gold.

40 AD --> 25 AD
10% LS --> 12% LS
150 Active Damage --> 100 Active Damage
30% MS slow --> 25% MS Slow
400 range --> 500 range

So, our major problem with Bilgewater Cutlass has been that, while attractive, it never really felt like the utility you purchased was anywhere near the price. It's meant to be a cool utility pickup that offered some lane sustain and gave you a chance at an all-in but it seemed to be just generally ineffective unless your character already had an all-in.

Hence, we're trying to tune it so that it becomes a better utility pick-up and slightly more usable in general at the cost of some of the active power.

Blade of the Ruined King

Recipe: Cutlass + Dagger + Dagger + 500 Gold = 2700 Gold total from 2850 Gold on live.

* 45 AD --> 30 AD
* 0% AS --> 40% AS
* 10% LS --> 0% LS
* Passive now heals you for 30% of your total attack damage, rather than 50% of the damage dealt. This is essentially premitigation lifesteal.
* Active slow/speed duration is now 4 seconds from 2 seconds.
* Active now deals 100 + 10% of the targets maximum life - serving as an execute or a wind-up peel
* Range increased to 550 from 400.

Numbers still need further tuning.

So our problems with the previous iteration of the PBE BoRK was that it still suffered from a number of cross-purposes. This version is most likely way too mathy to be entirely elegant - ideally we'd find a more elegant phrasing of it - but this is kind of the sledgehammer approach. We'll probably try to find ways to refine it.

Essentially, the problem with the 'sustain-tank' approach that the old BoRK was after was simply it gave you the sustain frequently at a time where you didn't need it and as you got low. By the time you wound up needing the sustain near the end of the fight, the item simply didn't give you any sustain - hence the move towards a more flattened sustain approach.

The active is either an execute for those close fights and then further MS to capitalize on cleaning up the fight - or a mid-fight kiting tool.

The approach here is to move BoRK away from being a primary damage slot item and into your attack speed slot as a Carry. BoRK should be ideally competing with your 2nd major multiplicative item, like Shiv or Phantom Dancer - rather than your first big damage item.

Also - I am now deathly scared of Irelia - but at the very least she's not assassinating squishies exponentially faster than tanks with it.

Taric

* Shatter no longer gives a flat 10-30 armor aura, instead radiating X% of Taric's armor to allies.
* Shatter has an armor scaling damage ratio.
* Taric's passive changed to deal X% of his maximum mana as bonus damage.


Taric is a generalist support pick that has a success rate far far far above his compatriots at the moment. We have a couple options on where to go with him at this point - but in general, Taric suffers from being a generalist lane bully to transitioning to a walking ball of aura statistics for his team.

This tends to lead to Taric feeling like he does very little overall to the team - even if he is adding something like 1000 Gold to everyone's base statistics.

Keep in mind, we're still heavily iterating the numbers on him. In the end, Taric should be a compelling pick if you are facing a heavy attack damage team and we'll adjust the aura value until he fits that mold.

Taric's base AD reduction is mostly compensate for his passive attack damage which is still undergoing numerical tuning.

Hecarim

* Spirit of Dread (W) heal from damage flattened to 20% at all ranks from 10-30%
* Rampage (Q) base damage increased slightly at all ranks.

Hecarim is a character who is entirely dependent on levels for his major game advantage - The terrific power of his 'W' sustain once he actually gets the levels to fuel it.

This also leads to his major weakness - in that when he falls behind, he tends to be terrible at almost all ranks. We're essentially flattening this 'W' curve out a bit better such that Hecarim has a more consistent performance. Hecarim is already fairly intensive to play from a mechanics perspective with a lot of subtle nuances in successful 'E' and 'R' positioning so the added level pressure seems superflous a lot of the time.

Warmog's Armor

* Regeneration lowered to 1% from 1.5%.

We're mostly concerned at the moment with the early laning snowball case of this item, rather than the teamfight potential - considering the way we're trying to position BoRK. Depending on how well the BoRK tuning works out - the majority of the pain point of Warmog's should be how well it allows you to win the lane by mere stubborness and be immune to ganks.

Vayne / Tristana / Ashe

The current version of PBE has some heavy modifications to these character's attack speed per level statistics.

Vayne: 3.1% --> 4.5% ASPD / Level
Tristana: 3.01% --> 4.5% ASPD / Level
Ashe: 3.1% --> 4% ASPD / Level

The goal of this change is mostly to fulfill the basic promise of Vayne / Tristana. At level 18, these characters are supposed to absolutely destroy the enemy team - so long as you can get them there. They are, along with Kog'maw, some of the truest ranged carries in League of Legends at the moment.

However, with the decrease in power from itemization - these characters are suffering from a mid-game slump and a farming slump - thus power in their levels seemed to make sense for addressing their basic curve. This change basically ensures the power level of these traditionally weaker early-game carries for guaranteed power late game.

As for Ashe, she's kind of the ultimate late game utility/kite carry - thus the attack speed here is mostly so that she is always able to fulfill her role as kiting carry. Attack speed is a major factor in being able to "orb-walk" to poorly use DoTA Jargon (Attack Move fluidity, roughly).

Further Tuning

We'll be trying to look at the various AS options for this patch and trying to ensure that AD carries have sufficient options for customizing their damage load-outs based on playstyle / needs of the game.

Additionally - we'll probably be looking more at the Bulwark / Locket / Sunfire combination and trying to assess how powerful this defensive teamfight style is, as it's been very effective in LCS thus far.


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IS13537e7a92416eab299e3

Senior Member

02-15-2013

I don't really have much clue about Taric (since I main Soraka and Janna) but why does his new passive scale with max mana? Why not armor or something else? I'm...curious.


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Question Hound

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Really great changes, I'm interested in seeing how Blade will change build paths. On that topic, how will it affect things like Quinn's passive? You deal bonus damage on marked targets, but I'm guessing that doesn't equate to a higher base Lifesteal with BotRK?

Good job, Xyph, posts like this are really informative and satisfying to read.


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xAltairis

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Ashe buff? Oh god yay.
Can we please buff her base damage/W scaling by a little bit, though?


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Greyfauxx

Recruiter

02-15-2013

This all seems interesting. So manamune might be extremely stronk on Taric now. If I'm not mistaken, thats like 16% Mana to ad. <_<. Incoming 400 dmage AA's from Taric ohh god.


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Vandite

Senior Member

02-15-2013

So the combine cost of gunblade is going up?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

02-15-2013

Quote:

So the combine cost of gunblade is going up?


Yes - but the total cost of Gunblade should remain exactly the same as on live.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

02-15-2013

@Xyph can you further lay out taric's intended role based from the time of his remake, to now, and how you expect him to perform after these types of changes? It's arguable he has been capable to (now) be the strongest support with power and lesser game play. That doesn't mean a good taric player doesn't utilize his stun/heals/W active, but he's arguably a s2 aegis.

However I wonder if the nerfs will further the divide between strong utility bruisers (Nunu/Alistar/Taric/pre pre pre nerf blitz) and overall offensive/utility masters like Sona/Lulu/Zyra. Which to me would limit the effectiveness of baby sit lanes like Kog/Vayne/etc.


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Komeiji Koishi

Senior Member

02-15-2013

The attack speed change to Blade was really needed, as most ranged carry picks hardly grabbed it in favor of more traditional attack speed killing power/steroid options. One concern that might arise from that though is people might start thinking "OMG Madred's" and get it on Kog'maw's shred or Warwick or whatever.


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Question Hound

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Greyfauxx:
This all seems interesting. So manamune might be extremely stronk on Taric now. If I'm not mistaken, thats like 16% Mana to ad. <_<. Incoming 400 dmage AA's from Taric ohh god.

Mana-Taric, the new AD Sion.

*Stun...smacksmacksmack*