[Guide] Urgot: How to Not be Completely Useless

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sbudeeG

Senior Member

10-27-2010

Introduction: If you are reading this, you are probably thinking one of two things. The most likely is "lolurgot". Still, there are some die-hard Doctor Robotnik fans out there that refuse to give up on Urgot. For them, I write this comprehensive guide for not failing miserably. If you want to be boring and contribute very little to your team, Urgot and his most common playstyle are the way to go. If you want to be fun and contribute slightly more than Urgot normally does, then this is the guide for you. Be warned, though, that this guide will not make you the most hardcore carry in the game. It's just not happening. You're Urgot. Also, this guide is not for new players, or for players that cannot handle doing several things simultaneously and still maintain accuracy. If you have "oh shi-!" moments when teamfights happen randomly, or hesitate at all, this guide is not for you.

Now that we have that covered...

Runes:
Magic Penetration reds.
Dodge Chance yellows.
AP per Level blues.
Magic Penetration Quintessences

Magic Penetration. Not armor penetration. Don't argue, just get them. Stop relying on your Acid Hunter. It's not an effective way to play. You don't need the flat Hit Points Quintessences, so you might as well get some more magic penetration.
Dodge Chance: There are times that your ultimate will put you into some very bad situations for the good of the team in a team fight. A little bit of dodge never hurt when you're trying to get back to your team.
AP/Level: You're 2 AP abilities have a .8 ratio. One of them is an AoE, and the other is a mitigation shield that allows you to apply a slow so long as it is active. More AP is more AoE and more shield/slow. In a team fight, the AoE is very important, and the slow will prevent them from moving too much, which makes the entire team's job easier, especially if they enemy decides that they're gonna run.

Summoner Spells:

The Good:
-Exhaust: Your ultimate will often place you close enough to their ranged physical carry to exhaust them while the team fight is going on. This will win team fights. You should always be getting this.
-Teleport: **** happens. You get ganked. You need to save a turret. The enemies on other side lane (or mid lane) have neglected your minions to chase a low-health ally, leaving themselves vulnerable. A wave of minions is at the enemy turret, and they're too busy on the other side of the map to stop you from pushing that one. You want to still get items while laning, and miss out on as little exp as possible. The possibilities are endless. It goes with everything.
-Ghost: Sometimes, you just need to run. Bad ultimate placement, catching up to a team fight, escaping a gank, all of them are wonderful times to have ghost.
-Clarity: Urgot has a mana deficiency toward the start, and up through the mid-game. Clarity will help. It's decent. What you'd expect from a utility.
-Flash: Whether it is getting out of a gank/bad situation after saving a team mate, or getting into range to save a team mate, flash is an all around great choice.

The Bad:
Revive: If you plan on dying, quit reading this guide. The goal should always be not dying.
Heal: Not effective once you get past level 8 or so. You shouldn't be playing for the first 8 levels.
Rally: You stay put a lot, but Rally is easily outshine by a number of summoner spells on Urgot. What's more, is that you will not be going far enough into offense to get improved rally, and so the only thing it's going to do is help your right clickers. They should not need help. At least, not in the shape of Urgot wasting a summoner spell slot.
Cleanse: Nobody in their right mind is going to CC an Urgot instead of the carry. Even if they do, you should have enough survivability to ignore it for the larger part.
Ignite: You've got the most corrosive, vile liquid known to man that you can copiously launch into groups of enemies. You do not need to play with fire.
Fortify: Eh... better off letting the tank that probably has the improved version get it. It has little value outside of killing whoever is noobish enough to get in range of your ultimate near your turret. And you should never get summoner spells that require the enemies to suck.
Smite: Seriously? If I need to explain this....

Masteries:

I play with 9/0/21.

For Offensive, I get AP/Level, Improved Exhaust, Cooldown Reduction, and Magic Penetration.

For Utility, I try and get as much of the regens and cooldown reductions as I can. If you picked up ghost, get the improved ghost. I always get the experience boost and the gold.

You will notice that I have his masteries set like a lot of casters. While I am aware that Acid Hunters deal physical damage, the fact is that they are unreliable and relatively weak, unless you hit them with your AoE. ... If you're already hitting them with an AoE DoT that has a better conversion ratio... why are you bothering to specialize in the missile spam? With capped cooldown reduction, there is a time frame of roughly 1 second that they are not taking damage from your AoE (cooldown will be 6.6, takes about a half second for the AoE to hit the ground after being fired, the damage happens over 5 seconds).

Items:

Your starting item will be a Sapphire Crystal. Also, grab a health potion and a mana potion.
You will build Sapphire Crystal into Catalyst the protector, and pick up a pair of basic boots.
Upgrade your boots to Sorcerer's boots. The magic penetration really helps.
Upgrade Catalyst to Rod of Ages.
Buy Rylai's Crystal Scepter in the order of Giants Belt, Blasting Wand, Amplifying Tome, Completion.
Buy Zhonya's Ring in the order of Needlessly Large Rod, Blasting Wand, Completion.
Buy Abyssal Scepter.
Buy Lich Bane.

Catalyst is a must-have, even though it will delay the completion of your boots. The hit points and mana it gives at each level up increases your staying power dramatically, which in turn means more farm, which is essential. You won't get many kills or assists at the start, unless the enemies are not very bright or completely overconfident.

Sorcerer boots, while not necessarily essential, are the best boots for AP Urgot. The Magic Penetration means that you should see significantly higher damage to enemy champions that neglect to purchase heavy magic resistance, and will help prevent them from shutting your damage out.

Rod of Ages is important to get early, so that you can get the full benefits of the hit point, mana, and AP gains. It's an all around great item as well, as it gives you some survivability and more offense all in one. It's just good stuff.

Rylai's Crystal Scepter gives you survivability, AP, and a nifty slow effect. You should be in the thick of the on and off skirmishes when you can complete Rylai's. This is perfect, as it allows your team to have a huge advantage in adding a third form of slow from Urgot, this one slowing multiple people with the click of the mouse.

Zhonya's Ring is a crucial defensive mechanism. When they start dumping their damage on you after you screw over their squishy with a swap, Activating Rylai's will ensure that you have at least 2 more seconds before you die, and will often be the difference between them killing you, and your team scoring a flawless ace. Just be sure to communicate with your team, to make sure they know what you plan to do. A surprise ring active can have a negative impact on your team, as the general thought behind it is "Oh God, Urgot is panicking... run before we die too."

Abyssal Scepter comes in very handy, as more often than not your swap will place you very, very close to the enemy team. Being that close will allow all of your casters to take advantage of its aura. On top of that, it increases your magic resistance, allowing you to more easily survive the burst damage that comes with the swap.

Lich Bane is a great item for Urgot. If you play correctly, you will be doing a lot of normal attacking to keep enemy carries in check. It only makes sense that you'd like to apply your fairly decent AP total to your base damage. What makes it even better is the fact that you have a short cooldown spell, Acid Hunters, that will let you constantly benefit from it. On top of that, it increases your magic resistance, as well as your movement speed and mana. All around wonderful item.

Levels 1-6:
Take a side lane. You're not a mid. Just because you can mid does not mean that you should. You are better off laning with somebody, like Soraka or Sona, that can make due without getting a ton of gold in the early game, as you will be farming a lot with Noxian Corrosive Charge. Start out with Mana Crystal, a health potion and a mana potion. The boost in mana will help a lot more than any other starting item, and the potions will keep you in the lane and farming a little while longer. If your team has a jungler, however, and you are confident in your ability to not die, volunteer for the 1v2 lane.

It is alright to play aggressively, and take any and all chances you can at popping them with a Corrosive Charge. If you show them that you know exactly where they are going before even they know, you'll find that they will back off fairly quickly. Taking over a hundred damage over time right from the start is not friendly for them, they won't like making themselves available. If you're having problems with overly aggressive enemies, and they have the bite to back it up, don't fret. The range on Noxian Corrosive Charge is impressive, meaning you can farm in relative safety. If this is the case, your job is to just sit back and communicate with your team while you farm up gold.

You'll find that the second you hit level 6, they will not be that aggressive, especially if you are relatively safe near your tower. Unfortunately, this usually means that you will have a much harder time killing them, as they will stay well out of range of your ultimate unless there is nothing for them to fear nearby, essentially leaving you with a useless ultimate.

Skill order for levels 1-6 should be as follows: Start with Corrosive Charge. If they are aggressive and pushing you back, pick up your shield next. If you have them tripping over themselves trying to avoid the AoE, pick up Acid Hunter and start to lead them by spamming Acid Hunter, throwing the occasional AoE into the mix, trapping them into taking at least one of them. At level 3, level up corrosive charge again. At level 4, pick up whatever ability you do not already have. At level 5, level up corrosive charge again. At level 6, get your ultimate. Even if it's useless more often than not, it is better to have it should the situation arise that you need it.

Levels 7-12

The Lane Phase has ended, or is soon to end. It's time now for the Skirmish Phase. Here, your job is simple. Babysit your hard carry so that (s)he does not become a snack for more early-mid dominant characters. As the teams are lining up, try to assess who you are going to screw over. Prioritize casters or squishy carries, preferably the melee ones. Don't be a hero and immediately run in and use your ultimate. That's stupid, and if you do it, you deserve to die horribly, with the rest of your team running the other way while saying some not so pleasant things to you in allied chat, for they know that you are a total moron, and probably just screwed them over, possibly even costing your team a turret.

What you do once you've picked out a target is ... wait. You are not an initiator, though you can feel free to take pot shots at them with Acid Hunters. Don't use Corrosive Charges yet, though, as that ability is an integral part in your skirmish duty. Once the skirmish begins, hit the initiator once with a basic attack, to trigger your passive. If that initiator happens to be a Warwick, his victim might have the insight to thank you later. Once the attack is placed, try to get to the very edge of your range in terms of distance to the poor sap you picked out earlier. Launch your Noxian Corrosive Charge at the soon-to-be-dearly-departed target. AS SOON as the animation of launching the charge finishes, start your ultimate on that target. This accomplishes two things. First off, it guarantees that at least one enemy is going to be hit by Noxian Corrosive Charge. How? Because there is a slight, yet notable delay between the launch and the trigger for a corrosive charge, which is meant to give them a decent chance to evade it's long range and high damage. By stunning them with your instant-cast ultimate (they are stunned as it prepares to swap the two of you), you bypass their ability to leave the area (duh). The second thing it accomplishes is giving their squishy a free ticket to the spawning pool.

Once you have swapped them, you should be in the prime location to exhaust their ranged carry. This means that you have effectively eliminated 2 people from the team fight. Congratulations, if the rest of your team is not horribad, you just won the skirmish. And they can grovel at your robotic feet, if you can call them such, after the match.

Oh, but you're not done yet. Pop your shield and start spamming attacks and Acid Hunters on as many different targets as possible, applying a slow, as well as an attack damage debuff, Good stuff, especially against physically intense enemies. If their carry is not dead or running when exhaust runs off, make sure you smack them once, remind them who is boss.

By stacking the slow and damage reduction on as many targets as possible, you're practically spoonfeeding the victory to your team.

At every odd-level, you are upping Corrosive Charge, aside from level 11, which is obviously not only 2 levels past the point when Corrosive Charge is maxed, but also the level where you can level up your ultimate. On every even number level, you are upgrading your shield. Your shield is what keeps you alive in team fights, and every level is a bonus 5% to the slow effect. It's all good stuff. Leveling Acid Hunters is not as effective. Don't do it.


Levels13-18:
During this phase, you are generally trying, as a team, to push the enemy back to their base, destroying their turrets, and hopefully an inhibitor or two, along the way. Needless to say, several team fights will happen during this time. Keep to the same role you had before. Your job is very complex. Not only are you responsible for dealing damage, but also you are responsible for shaping the fight. Don't be afraid to die if it means that you gave your team 5 kills. Sometimes, you just have to, and doing so means that your team eats two of their turrets. Still, at this point in the game, you should have enough means to escape and/or live through everything they have to throw at you. And once you make a name for yourself in team fights with your well placed AoE and removing their squishy and their carry from a team fight, they will definitely throw it all. At this point in the game, you should have a Zhronya's Ring. If at any point you feel that you won't survive their burst, do not forget to use it. If their casters are giving you a hard time, feel free to invest in a Banshee's Veil. It's more than worth it.

Take your last level in Terror Capacitor first, then finish Acid Hunters, remembering to grab your ultimate's final level at 16.

Final Notes:

The key to playing Urgot effectively is not committing to a single target. Your primary goal is to shape the fight, throwing their squishy into the middle of your team, then lighting up the rest with a close range Corrosive Charge, then proceeding to weaken their physical carries. You are a utility knife, not a machete.


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AnalC

Senior Member

10-28-2010

Why start at all if ya couldnt finish right away? U could have saved it via word processor and post the whole text body at once when ready?

Especially because this leaves tons of open questions, of which the major one is that what the hell is THE purpose of this guide? You should explain the item build early, before diggin deep into laning tactics. Which, just to say, are not that effective, unless u can actually explain how early flat mana helps over mana regeneration? U c, Acid Hunter's mana cost is FLAT. So upgrading it your mana consumption doesnt go up while your dmg increases a lot. On the other hand, maxing Corrosive Charge first means that your mana consumption skyrockets. How your gonna fill the cap?


And, more over, why in gods name just be "Not Completely Useless" when Urgot can, de facto, be actually usefull for the team?


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sbudeeG

Senior Member

10-28-2010

As for the flat mana versus the mana regeneration, there are a few things that come into play. Even if you are just last hitting minions and leaving the enemy champions alone with Acid Hunter, the mana consumption is still greater than the mana consumption from using Noxian Corrosive Charge. The difference being in that Noxian Corrosive Charge takes it all at once, and can be used to simultaneously harass enemy champions, and Acid Hunters take it more gradually. Using Noxian Corrosive Charge takes 50/55/60/65/70 mana at an 11 second cooldown, though with the initial CDR from masteries, it is just shy of 10 seconds. Acid Hunters are a static 40 mana, but at a cooldown of 2 seconds, are barely effected by the CDR, and hit only a single target. So in truth it actually MORE mana intensive to spam Acid Hunters, and relatively cheap to farm with Noxian Corrosive Charge. Because of the cheap farm, (at level 9, 70 mana is just not something you're truly going to care about, and it will deal 320 damage over 5 seconds, 100 at level 1. Way more efficient and hardly costly in mana), you don't really need the mana regeneration. Also, the mana regeneration from Meki Pendant is 7 per 5. Meaning that in order to reach the base mana gained from Sapphire Crystal, it would take roughly 142.85 seconds. Urgot starts with only 275 mana. Almost doubling his mana gives him a lot more freedom to harass and farm, and establish the early lane dominance. Two and a half minutes is just too long to wait for the mana regen.

I say "Not Completely Useless" because that is what most Urgots are. I have noticed how badly he is played by a vast majority of the people I've seen play him, and that is what motivated me to write this.


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AnalC

Senior Member

10-28-2010

Ok, I c.

However, you base your tactic on assumption that every single corrosive charge do both, harass enemies AND actually gets final hit(s). In my experience you need to be active when placing final hits, because units taking dmg over time gets killed by other minions or by your laning partner before, if ever, theyr gonna go down because of the contamination. If you finish a single minion with one charge it pays off, but I cant trust every single shot of corrosive charge actually kills a minion, not to say multiple, and therefore I think acid hunter is better deal.

Of course we could do the math and calculate how much a single manapoint costs cold based on median last hitting success of each of the abilities, but first we would need to agree on the numbers and I believe you think you actually get more last hits with corrosive charge than you do, or at least I believe you do. I believe this partly because of experiece on using corrosive charge and AP build, and partly because of the fact that you teach people to be "not completely useless" where as a build based on mana flow and dmg items actually makes Urgot relatively successfull.

With ArPen, lvl3 Acid hunter seems to drop a slightly damaged minion with a single shot. Therefore, farming is actually more intensive if able to lower minions with lvl1 corrosive charge and then drop them one by one first with acid hunter(s) and when the corrosive charge has kicked in, simply (and manafree) with autoattacks. This actually gives you faster farming because it ensures the kills, unlike unreliable corrosive charge alone. Faster farm means faster gold which means faster growth and faster completed items which means that mana problem gets solve for good.

And when it comes to killing champions, the slow dmg input of corrosive charge overall seems bit contradictory because it leaves time for people to utilize counter measures (no matter I agree that the damage it self is nice) what ever they might be, opposing when you use far further flying acid hunter which delivers dmg right on the hit, and as said, which doesnt get more expensive even as the dmg ammount grows. One can hit contaminated targets out of line of the sight because the missile is guided, which adds extra value to it.


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sbudeeG

Senior Member

10-28-2010

I said in the guide to aim for laning with a champion that is not dependent on gaining a lot of farm. When you can't, it is still perfectly acceptable. It's not hard to kill one or more minions with one Corrosive Charge, just use it as the minions drop to their last leg of health. Also, while hitting enemies with your Corrosive Charge is nice, you don't always have to. All you are required to do is lob it when their melee comes to try and last hit. If you're not against a melee, lob it so that just the outer edge of the circle covers the enemy, and the rest is behind them. Instinctively, they will normally back up. If they back up as you move into range, lob it on some low health minions instead. By them backing up, they just missed their last hit, and you gained a slight edge. You are under the impression that you always have to deal damage to an enemy champion in order to effectively counter their farming. The simple fact is that you don't. In fact, Acid Hunters are much less likely to deter enemies than Corrosive Charge, because Acid Hunters are both single target (hide behind minions) and are no more likely to hit than Corrosive Charge (I would argue less likely, as they have a narrow path and can only affect that small area). At the latest, you will have Acid Hunter at level 4 anyway, at which point you can continue to rake in the gold and harass to your heart's content. More damage, more targets, and better deterrence, Corrosive Charge is far better than Acid Hunters. Also, as it is damage over time, many people will either forget about that damage at first, yielding more damage (all the while you have your shield up, slowing them and reducing their damage with your passive), or feel that they can kill you before the continual damage kills them, which is more often than not, a mistake.

Damage Urgot is far worse than AP Urgot. With a .7 conversion ratio for Acid Hunters, compared to the .8 on Corrosive Charge and Terror Capacitor, and the need limit to one target per Acid Hunter, Attack Damage Urgot quickly falls behind AP Urgot in both damage output and survivability, as well as utility. Corrosive Charge is rediculously easy to land in a team fight. It is comparable to Vlad's ultimate, and we all know that Vlad's ultimate is fairly reliable. The best part is that the damage is continual, giving you a lot in assist gold. It also deals more damage in roughly the same amount of time, and still maintains a short cooldown.

And again, you are basing the incredible range sure-fire damage on already hitting them with Noxian Corrosive Charge, so that the lock-on is enabled. If you're already hitting them with Noxian Corrosive Charge, which has higher damage and conversion ratio, why are you focusing on the Acid Hunters? Yeah, you can spam them... big deal. You'll get 2, maybe three off on a target before they are out of range. Counter-intuitively, it is actually LESS damage. Why? Because AP Urgot gets a Ryjal's Crystal Scepter, which slows the target, meaning more Acid Hunter Spam (and more survivability). "But Spudeeg, if you use Terror Capacitor, the Acid Hunters slow too!" Of course. However, with no AP, your shield wears off fairly quickly, while you're taking damage trying to spam those Acid Hunters. So then you lose the slow as your shield drops, and they end up getting away. When you have AP, however, you have a better shield, which means more Acid Hunter slow (which happens regardless of AD or AP, and stacks with the slow effect from Noxian Corrosive Charge). In the end, AP Urgot deals more damage than AD Urgot, while surviving longer.

What I find separates AD Urgot players, and AP Urgot players, and why I think that AP Urgot is vastly superior, is that AD Urgot players place their focus on getting the last hit, chasing down runners with a good lock, while AP Urgot players are more worried about the entire enemy team. Focusing a target down is nice. However, you're more useful, much more useful, when you are attacking every physical carry with your basic attack at least once in a 2.5 second period, All while dealing significant AoE damage to multiple enemies, and throwing your Acid Hunters at the target your team designates. In summary: AD Urgot is focused on getting kills, AP Urgot is focused on getting your team kills.


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PerAnon

Senior Member

10-28-2010

I'm sorry, I'm really not attempting to be rude here, but please take a moment to consider what you are advocating here. You want to build Urgot as AP, but the cat literally only has one damaging ability that scales with AP, and its ratio is mediocre. Yes, his shield scales with AP as well, but again, with an unimpressive ratio, and it does nothing to improve this build's poor output.

First, though, let's talk about the scaling difference between Acid Hunter and Corrosive Charge. You've correctly identified that their ratios are .7 (AD) and .8 (AP) respectively. Charge wins, according to you, due to its larger number. Okay, agreed, if I cast each spell one time, it would do more damage. But let's look at cooldowns: 2 seconds vs 11 seconds. Keeping in mind that both abilities start OFF cooldown, you can fire 6 Acid Hunters total before you can get off a second Charge. Just looking at ratios, that would mean in terms of damage dealt, Acid Hunter has a ratio of 4.2 (AD), which is far better.

Now, that is of course theorycraft, so let's make it simpler: you only have to hit with 2 of those 6 possible Acid Hunters to make the AD build outdamage AP (by a lot). You comment that NCC is easier to land, which, even if granted, just supports the AD build, because since the lock on lasts for 5 seconds, you should be getting 3 autohitting Qs off - no missing even possible. 2.1 AD ratio vs .8 AP is no choice at all.

What's more, Urgot's abilities are tailor-made to work around his Acid Hunter. Note that NCC, in addition to giving the amazing incredibly long range lock on (which even allows you to hit enemy champions you can't see - try it sometime!), lowers the targets' armor. Armor reduction = even more damage from Q. What's more, it is a PERCENTAGE increase in physical damage, meaning that you will see a bigger return on NCC with more AD. You mention teamfight utility - trust me, 30 less armor for their team is plenty - the damage from NCC itself is inconsequential compared to the debuff.

Now, his shield. I personally run Urgot maxing Q first, getting a rank of NCC at 2, then maxing the shield next, because it's that good on AD Urgot. Will it hold up to sustained fire? Of course not. It doesn't do that on AP Urgot either, but that's not the point. You talk about long range harass with NCC. This is how it works for AD Urgot - NCC lands, pop shield, Q. Now, they can try and run, but you have them beat with your shield slow. Alternately, they can turn to close the gap, but wait! They're already slowed. Just kite them backward (you can cast Q while moving) and they're equally screwed. In that situation, you don't need to worry about the shield being focused down, because Acid Hunter with lockon has a huge range.

AD Urgot gets kills and enables ganks early in order to mess with the enemy team's farm, and you can still feed your carry kills - even AD Urgot is not a burst machine. For every NCC AP Urgot lands, AD Urgot would have done significantly more damage to the most valuable target in that mix with lockon Q.

To be "not completely useless" with Urgot, you have to be careful, choose targets wisely, and work with your team - building AP won't help you if you can't do those things.


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AnalC

Senior Member

10-28-2010

responce to SbudeeG:

Ok, I c.

You, kind sir, have some solid points there. But let me say this much:

I do advocate using Corrosive Charge with Acid Hunters. Noting that dmg over time is often underlooked and ends up killing the enemy is kinda correct. However, a good player doestn under estimate dmg over time. A good player has situational awerness. Here spämmin' high-DMG missiles comes handy. In dogfight you throw in Charge, yes, to get initial dmg and then späm AD items-boosted CDR-missiles in highest possible speed to max your dmg output. While on this, you also use your AD-items boosted autoattack to deal more dmg. Simply relying on AP dmg from "slow" Corrosive Charge puts you in unfavorable position in all fights, and especially in 1v1. Bringing enemies down as fast as possible should be the paramount in every and each encounter from skrimish to full scale battle.

What u said about Rylai's is partly correct. Because of relatively long CD of Corrosive Charge you only get to slow enemy down once, and the slow is even hindered by the fact that AoE spell slows the enemy less. Ok, you can bring in your Acid Hunters to slow him down again, but what good is hitting escaping enemy with a weapon that has dmg output similar to a feather? Secondly, I wonder why chase running enemy at all if theres fire and steel all over the place around you. Your shield is not a spell shield and if you charge the enemies trusting only on your shield, they will smell the blood and take you donw instantly no matter how much AP u got.

You can, of course, chase enemy in safe environment, but in this case U dont need AP-boosted shield but instead, you need to bring the enemy down FAST and when taking the time factor into account this is done more effectively with autoattacks (possibly boosted with life steal) and with Acid Hunters, because they both get boost from AD items.



But before we continuing this debate I would be interested to read your complete item build. After that we could also do the math and calculate the actual damage output on both builds, including the time factor. While I may agree that overall dmg output with AP build is actually greater, it is important to remember that time counts as well, because dmg over time gets you and your mates killed even if enemy might die in few secs (and most of them dont if they ackowledge the threat from the Corrosive Charge). Having huge instant dmg output drops enemies without jeopardizing you and your team by not giving them chance to fire back as much.

As a conclusive note I want to point out that the overall atmosphere of this thread is skewed. You start with the notion that Urgot can only be "not so useless" but in the recent posts you argue that AP is actually superior to AD. Well, this being the case AP actually should be more than "not so useless" for AD is, de facto, quite usefull! For example, you advocate on staying back and because of this Urgot doesnt get kill early, especially after lvl 6. Maybe this is based on experience but aggressive Urgot with correct build does pick enemies safely from their own towers, gets kills and gets off like a true champ!

The problem was the same with Gragas when he came out. People didnt know how to play and build him and he got bad reputation. Gragas hasnt got any major puffs or reworks, only adjustments and now hes respected part of league. Urgot should get stat-adjustments but with AD build he actually is, already, neat addition to the team if played properly. He simply is far better than "not completely useless" with AD items.



edit ~ I was writing this so long, side by side with my daily work that my post was delayed. Commenter above brought in the notion of the time factor far better than I did so respects.


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Ebon Hyena

Junior Member

10-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerAnon View Post
I'm sorry, I'm really not attempting to be rude here, but please take a moment to consider what you are advocating here. You want to build Urgot as AP, but the cat literally only has one damaging ability that scales with AP, and its ratio is mediocre. Yes, his shield scales with AP as well, but again, with an unimpressive ratio, and it does nothing to improve this build's poor output.

First, though, let's talk about the scaling difference between Acid Hunter and Corrosive Charge. You've correctly identified that their ratios are .7 (AD) and .8 (AP) respectively. Charge wins, according to you, due to its larger number. Okay, agreed, if I cast each spell one time, it would do more damage. But let's look at cooldowns: 2 seconds vs 11 seconds. Keeping in mind that both abilities start OFF cooldown, you can fire 6 Acid Hunters total before you can get off a second Charge. Just looking at ratios, that would mean in terms of damage dealt, Acid Hunter has a ratio of 4.2 (AD), which is far better.

Now, that is of course theorycraft, so let's make it simpler: you only have to hit with 2 of those 6 possible Acid Hunters to make the AD build outdamage AP (by a lot). You comment that NCC is easier to land, which, even if granted, just supports the AD build, because since the lock on lasts for 5 seconds, you should be getting 3 autohitting Qs off - no missing even possible. 2.1 AD ratio vs .8 AP is no choice at all.

What's more, Urgot's abilities are tailor-made to work around his Acid Hunter. Note that NCC, in addition to giving the amazing incredibly long range lock on (which even allows you to hit enemy champions you can't see - try it sometime!), lowers the targets' armor. Armor reduction = even more damage from Q. What's more, it is a PERCENTAGE increase in physical damage, meaning that you will see a bigger return on NCC with more AD. You mention teamfight utility - trust me, 30 less armor for their team is plenty - the damage from NCC itself is inconsequential compared to the debuff.

Now, his shield. I personally run Urgot maxing Q first, getting a rank of NCC at 2, then maxing the shield next, because it's that good on AD Urgot. Will it hold up to sustained fire? Of course not. It doesn't do that on AP Urgot either, but that's not the point. You talk about long range harass with NCC. This is how it works for AD Urgot - NCC lands, pop shield, Q. Now, they can try and run, but you have them beat with your shield slow. Alternately, they can turn to close the gap, but wait! They're already slowed. Just kite them backward (you can cast Q while moving) and they're equally screwed. In that situation, you don't need to worry about the shield being focused down, because Acid Hunter with lockon has a huge range.

AD Urgot gets kills and enables ganks early in order to mess with the enemy team's farm, and you can still feed your carry kills - even AD Urgot is not a burst machine. For every NCC AP Urgot lands, AD Urgot would have done significantly more damage to the most valuable target in that mix with lockon Q.

To be "not completely useless" with Urgot, you have to be careful, choose targets wisely, and work with your team - building AP won't help you if you can't do those things.
This. . .

Early game Urgot can be so brutal with seeking acid hunter. Just make it so that the enemy has two choices. Stand around and get nailed by the ridiculously long range acid hunter or stand slightly behind the tower for laning phase.

With constant acid hunter harass you should be able to keep the enemy heroes pretty low hp, which is why I love one of my usual laning partners, Shaco. Urgot will keep them quite low and Shaco can stealth up to them and end them.


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sierskan

Senior Member

10-28-2010

disagree with this guide, when urgot was 2-3 weeks old i thought of how you could not make him so useless. Thought of an AP build, checked some ratios did the math and tested it out just to see how his role should be played. I'm not saying i did bad, but i did definently not contribute as much as i could have done with my AD/Tank build. And i almost did the same build as this one


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sbudeeG

Senior Member

10-28-2010

PerAnon, you are not taking into effect is the multiple target capability of Noxian Corrosive Charge (which has roughly the same range as Acid Hunters). It's area is comparable to Vlad's ultimate, and is fairly easy to hit with, especially in team fights. In a 1v1 or even 2v2, yes, Acid Hunters is better at killing enemy champions. The game is not won in 1v1 or 2v2, however. The game is won by teamwork in team fights. Say you hit 3 targets with Noxian Corrosive Charge. That is 320 per target, plus a conversion of 80% of your AP. In order to deal that much damage with Acid Hunters to even a single target without counting conversions, you would need 7 acid hunters, which would take 14 seconds compared to the 5 seconds it takes Noxian Corrosive Charge. With conversion ratios, it is even more.

With the shield, the slow for the missiles only works so long as it is up. If it's not up, you don't slow. With nothing going into it, like AD Urgot rolls, its one auto-attack from a physical carry, or one mediocre spell away from fizzling and being pointless. In order to keep it up on AD Urgot, you need to avoid taking damage, which won't happen if you're playing him properly.

Again, you can lock on to targets and fire you missles, but it takes them way too long to deal damage comparable to Noxian Corrosive Charge. You're looking at the cooldown and assuming that dealing damage in that period of time is the goal. It's not. More damage faster wins team fights, not less damage slower. Quality over Quantity. He may have nifty stuff for his Acid Hunters, however that does not mean build yourself around them. They are not the cure-all, end-all. The Acid Hunters get all these buffs because they are incredibly weak on their own, and require too much committed time to a single target. Like I said, great at fewer targets, bad at clusters. AD Urgot belongs in Twisted Treeline, AP Urgot belongs in Summoner's Rift.

Anyway, I updated it to reflect items and such. By the way, AnalC, you kind of just backed me up when you said "it is important to remember that time counts as well, because dmg over time gets you and your mates killed even if enemy might die in few secs (and most of them dont if they ackowledge the threat from the Corrosive Charge)." Having to continuously spam Acid Hunters takes far longer to apply lethal amounts of damage than it does with Noxian Corrosive Charge, with the exception being against a single target. Here's the problem: You have to devote the entire duration of NCC's DoT to firing AH just to break even with it's damage output. AP Urgot, however, can toss his AoE and proceed to screw over the enemy team.

What you're failing to see is that Urgot is not a pure damage champion. Building him with the sole purpose of dealing damage is failing to play him correctly. If his job were to deal damage, he would have an ultimate that deals damage. Ask yourself this: "Who has an ultimate that defies the role of their job?" The answer? Nobody. During the time you are casting your ultimate, you lose the ability to add damage output with AD Urgot. So if Urgot was meant to just do raw damage... why have an ultimate that prevents him from doing that damage? Because he's not supposed to. Urgot is mainly a shaper. He is meant to mess with the enemy team's formation and place himself into a position that benefits the rest of his team, though the expense is felt by him. That is why his ultimate buffs his armor and magic resistance. It's not to pick off whatever target just happens to be strolling by. It's meant to take the easy to kill, but hard to get to enemy and make them very easy to get to. And then he has free reign to wreak havoc in the center of the enemy team, all the while being able to eat their burst relatively effectively.


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