The rune page system is one of the most anti-fun elements of this game.

First Riot Post
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Dr Plutonious

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Thank you Hippalus for coming in here and starting a dialogue. At the end of the day that is what I wanted to achieve with a Red. I realize that Rune Pages and any changes done to them require a lot of work and that getting to an ideal solution may take time as well as intermediary steps. I very greatly appreciate you jumping in on this topic and providing some insight, timelines, and, answering question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Xyanyde View Post
Well then. "This is pretty disappointing. At this point I'd almost rather have a Red post that this is a topic not to be discussed rather than continuing to be ignored. It's clear that this is a popular topic amongst others."

I'm a Red. I'd like to discuss this topic. It's not to be ignored even if it is a popular topic.

1. Rune pages can be bought with RP as well as IP. Even if you unlock 20 pages with RP, that doesn't mean that you instantly gain the runes that need to be placed into those pages. You aren't purchasing power at all honestly.

2. "I mean, how many times have you seen pros dodge in tournaments or scrims" I personally have literally denied pros at the multiple LCS (NA and EU) events from dodging just to make new rune pages "according to their lane match up." (Mouzsports during the EU Season 3 Live Qualifiers and more notably CLG during week 1 against TSM. I actually made Hotshot GG play against Dyrus top lane with ZERO RUNES because he didn't utilize his set up time to create rune pages. CLG won that game by the way with their runeless top laner.) "It's just silly." I agree. If you need to dodge to make a rune page, you should have to deal with the same penalty that every other player does.

3. If you don't want to spend money... Don't! Rune pages are purchasable with Influence Points. Even before I was a Rioter, I made sure that I had full Rune Pages for each Champion that I would play for every role without spending RP for the pages themselves. I made sure I had Rune Pages for each role ready before I even stepped into ranked games not just for myself but for my fellow players to be sure I was bringing my best to each and every game I played.

I understand where you are coming from but we have even had a 2 for 1 Rune Page sale in the past. I agree that having an extra Rune Page in your arsenal is useful, arguably just as much as having an additional Champion. As such, I'd say that having a Rune Page at the same IP value as a Champion is fair.
My Response :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Plutonious View Post
1. The argument goes both ways. For the longest time I was limited to 2 rune pages simply because I didn't want to spend money to get more. Having to grind 6300 IP to get one page just so I can use some new runes in their own page? You have to agree that is pretty ridiculous. Why do I need to pay (IP or RP) just so I can utilize content I already bought freely?

2. This is rather odd, as during Season 2 there were numerous times pros dodged and the casting team said it was because they were editing runes.

Does this imply that there is inconsistency? I know I've seen it before.

3. This just seems like a personal account. Not everyone goes into ranked with complete pages for their champs, which hurts everyone.




Let me ask you this. Are you happy with the current system? All your responses just seem to point to way "around" the current system.

This current system just doesn't make sense. Why do masteries get free pages but runes don't? 6300 for an extra page to increase variety just seems silly. We are already forced to buy the runes with IP, we should at least be able to use them as freely as we want with our champs.



Regardless of what you seem to think about this, it really seems like the question of how to make the rune page system better is being avoided.

I also EXTREMELY disagree with your assessment that pages should be equal to that of a new champ, that is a HORRIBLE comparison. Not all champs are 6300. You can get champs of any type for much lower IP costs. You cannot do the same for Rune pages.

You are essentially saying that a piece of content that provides minimal pleasure for the buyer (through gameplay experience) is worth the equvilent of one of the newer champs. This almost seems like a bad joke.

At the very least, the IP cost of pages should be reduced so players can start accumulating them with more ease, giving them more variety in champ select. Still, I don't see why my suggestion of being able to edit in champ select is a bad one either.
This is also a very good suggestion as well Riot:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrċ View Post
I feel that a reasonable solution would be to increase the starting pages to something like 4-5 so that you can cover all of the roles. The real problem I have with these rune pages is that 2 is extremely limiting for playstyle. I have a basic AD page and a basic AP page, if I was last to pick and my team needed a tanky jungler then I would already be at a distinct disadvantage over my enemies because both of my rune pages are focused more on the AD carry and AP carry roles. I don't have the numbers and I'm sure you at Riot do, but I'm pretty sure there are several people who are capable of reaching Diamond league with just the two standard rune pages. They aren't exactly necessary, but they help the player feel more comfortable when forced into a role that they aren't usually prepared for. I have to own what, like 16 champions just to play ranked at level 30 and buy two full tier 3 rune sets on top of that if I want to be relevant within the game. That is an extremely heavy stress load on my IP income just to prepare for ranked play, let alone saving a bonus 6300 on top of that with different runes to go along with that page. There is just way too much IP taxation going on there and it'd take months to save up that much IP playing at a rate of say 3-4 hours a day. Just starting with additional rune pages would greatly help speed up the preparation process involved with getting comfortable with your champions and their rune pages.


I honestly hate this system. It just feels like such a poorly designed system that I'm surprised no one talks about it really more.

There is so much wrong about the system that really should be adjusted or changed, especially considering how the mastery system has gone through a couple "convenience updates" while runes are ignored.

Runes are supposed to be a cool element to LoL, adding a bit of customization which can greatly help your early game needs. There are a variety of runes as well to help fit what you need depending on the champion match ups and what role you are playing.

So what's the problem?

Rune Pages.

I wanted to create a list of problems I had with the Rune system but it all goes back to how stupid the Rune Page system is. My issues with it:

1. Rune Pages can be bought with RPs, essentially buying power. A person who owns 10 pages can optimize for specific champions while keeping your standard "go to" pages, such as an AD page. This is HUGE in ranked as running a champ with runes that aren't optimal can make a big difference. I've stomped so many lanes just because a person didn't own the appropriate runes for the champ he played.

2. Because Rune Pages need to be bought, Riot has not allowed players to change rune pages while in champ select. You need more rune pages if you want ANY sort of decent set up for a variety or champs and roles, let alone being able to have different pages for the same champ depending on the match up.

I mean, how many times have you seen pros dodge in tournaments or scrims because they want to adjust their runes according to their lane match up? It's just silly. It's not like you can do that in solo queue.

3. If you don't want to spend money, buying more rune pages is a huge investment in IP. Buying runes sucks enough. There is nothing fun about buying runes. You get them cause they are necessary. Buying a rune page is even worse. All those flashy runes you got to run Skarner? Useless you get an extra page (assuming you have 2 standard ones for AD, AP, etc.) You either spend IP or RP just so you can use runes you already own.


Why are masteries free to edit while Rune Pages are not?

What it honestly feels like is that Riot has ignored this because of the huge RP or IP refunds they'd be forced to give which is kind of lame.



Riot. You really need to revamp the rune page system. Give people the refunds the deserve and make this system ACTUALLY feel cool and optimal. You'll help both the new player who is can't utilize all of his runes due to lack of pages as well as helping veteran players who would look to optimize their pages according to their lanes, etc.

My ideal suggestion would be to have pages act just like mastery pages. If this isn't possible, having IP reductions on pages would also be a beneficial starting point.

PS: I'm not cheap. I own 17 rune pages, paying for all with RP. I would personally not even ask for a refund to see this system fixed.

TL;DR: Rune Page system is broken and poorly designed. It should be done away with.

PLEASE KEEP THIS BUMPED. THIS IS A TOPIC RIOT NEEDS TO ADDRESS.



Shout out to The Cookie ( DoubIeIift on Reddit) for posting my thread on Reddit. Helped it take off quite rapidly.




EDIT: Someone said I didn't suggest any changes. I believe that Runes would operate their best just like how masteries do. Pages should be free and they should be able to be edited in champ select. That would allow people to make the most out of their runes as well as open up opportunities for some rarer rune combos.

EDIT #2: Still looked for a RED reply! Come on Riot. It be nice to actually here your thoughts on this issue.

EDIT #3: Over 100 upvotes! Keep this bumped. Riot, all I'm looking for is for you to comment on this situation. There definitely is work we can do on the rune pages that begins to move the system in the right direction.

Also, for all those people telling me this is dumb, I challenge you to find an argument as to why the current system would be better than a system that functioned like masteries.

EDIT #4: 200 upvotes! Come on Riot lets hear something.

EDIT #5: 300 upvotes! Keep it climbing everyone.

EDIT #6: Riot, my rune page suggestions are just my personal beliefs. I'm completely open to any and all suggestions to improve this system, from IP reductions for pages to the extreme. Just communicate.

EDIT #7: Alright, I'm sure a Red must have seen this by now since I've seen Reds posting while this thread is front page...we're at 400 upvotes. Can we get some sort of communication?

EDIT #8: 550 upvotes...anytime now.

EDIT #9: 600 upvotes Riot. You waiting for 1000?

EDIT #10: 800 upvotes...we will reach 1000 Riot.

EDIT #11: We did it, over 1000 upvotes and still no luck from Riot. I really am hoping for a response in this thread soon.

EDIT #12: wow this gained some speed fast. Keep it bumped like this! Almost 1300.

EDIT #13: Well...a Red did reply. Not the response most of us wanted though.

EDIT #14: Wow. In less than 24 hours we went from about 950 upvotes to over 1800. Keep up the support for a change to this system!


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Dr Plutonious

Senior Member

02-14-2013

bump


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Lysinc

Senior Member

02-14-2013

I see no reasons as to why rune pages need to be 6300


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Rune pages are the way the are because of legacy reasons. Mastery pages used to be client side and you could only have two of them, whereas Rune pages were server side and you could buy more than two, which is why the Masteries can be edited. As for why they don't change the Rune pages to be the same... well, money.


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motumbo guardian

Senior Member

02-14-2013

i agree. My friend quit league because of runes, If you want to be any good in this game at all you HAVE to either spend money or play for about a year.


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Dr Plutonious

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Potato View Post
Rune pages are the way the are because of legacy reasons. Mastery pages used to be client side and you could only have two of them, whereas Rune pages were server side and you could buy more than two, which is why the Masteries can be edited. As for why they don't change the Rune pages to be the same... well, money.
I barely remember the old mastery system. But I didn't think you could have two...I thought you just had one page you always had to edit.

Which wasn't that big of a deal, I edit my masteries before every match (depending on lane match up).

Wish I could do it with runes too.


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Whist

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Runes are holding most people back.

I rarely buy champs with IP, I still have **** for runes aside from the basics for ap ad and support.

I'm getting matched against people who potentially own all the runes worth getting and can play any champion with a perfect build.

I understand Riot needing something else for people to burn IP on, but I would be more than happy to have them nerf IP gain and just give everybody all the runes.


I was really hoping to see an overhaul in S3 to address a lot of this, or at least the rune combiner..but I guess I have to hope for S4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Plutonious View Post
I barely remember the old mastery system. But I didn't think you could have two...I thought you just had one page you always had to edit.

Which wasn't that big of a deal, I edit my masteries before every match (depending on lane match up).
You could only have one. You became pro as **** at speed picking masteries.


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Dr Plutonious

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whist View Post
Runes are holding most people back.

I rarely buy champs with IP, I still have **** for runes aside from the basics for ap ad and support.

I'm getting matched against people who potentially own all the runes worth getting and can play any champion with a perfect build.

I understand Riot needing something else for people to burn IP on, but I would be more than happy to have them nerf IP gain and just give everybody all the runes.




You could only have one.
I should have included this in my post. Rune Pages REALLY hurt new players who don't want to invest RP. Buy a new champ, essential runes, or...a rune page because you can't use a new set of runes without one.

Yeah. That's logical and fun.


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motumbo guardian

Senior Member

02-14-2013

bumpp


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motumbo guardian

Senior Member

02-14-2013

if u guys could I could use some support as well
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...valentines+day

scumbag gifting system