Does Mordekaiser need a complete new rework?

Yes Please I have been waiting for this 146 25.00%
Nah just a buff should be fine 210 35.96%
He is fine as it is 183 31.34%
Nerf him 45 7.71%
Voters: 584. You may not vote on this poll

[Poll] mordekaiser rework

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Xela Syab

Senior Member

02-16-2013

I bought Morde, he's a really great champ but one of those "gotta hold out till level 6 or x item" Yeah morde is hextech dependant but I don't think people utilize his W effectively and I think it just needs a lower cd to give Morde a jungle/support niche instead of just mid lane.


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Fawstus

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
I bought Morde, he's a really great champ but one of those "gotta hold out till level 6 or x item" Yeah morde is hextech dependant but I don't think people utilize his W effectively and I think it just needs a lower cd to give Morde a jungle/support niche instead of just mid lane.
Well, he is. Like, build this or fail, like no champ should be. It's not like "Hmm... Should I build Zhonya's to counter that ADC or should I build Deathcap to kill him faster?" it's like "Holy damn, I need my revolver now or I am done for!".

But yeah, I think Creeping Death is one of the things that could be revamped, less CLD or making it a Toggle Skill could mean that Morde would become harder to damage... Taht if they did not make it kill himself too fast, since unlike Mundo, he does not regenerate not even close to that much of health. And no, Spellvamp wont help there, not until his health costs are gone.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawstus View Post
Well, he is. Like, build this or fail, like no champ should be. It's not like "Hmm... Should I build Zhonya's to counter that ADC or should I build Deathcap to kill him faster?" it's like "Holy damn, I need my revolver now or I am done for!".
Holy everything in the multiverse, there's someone else who understands this concept.

Giltia Zero would almost not hate you.


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Fawstus

Senior Member

02-17-2013

It's kind of easy to see, really. In my personal experience with Morde it became quite clear that trying to rush anything else but a Revolver was almost always worse than rushing the friggin Revolver, and yet, while, let's say, Katarina actually heals some nice bursts if she reushes a Revolver, Morde simply turns into a manaless champ, lacking that awesome healing that would make him more sustainable.

Do Morde counters other champions? Yes he does. Is it easier to counter him? Yes. Even if Morde is countering someone, the enemy can make him a lot less useful by just buying a useful item, named Guardian Angel.

Also, there is the issue that Morde is a complete sucker to any form of CC. Stuns and Silences? Bye bye shield generation. Slows? There is no dash around. Taunts? Bye bye shield generation and there is no dash around.


Giltia Zero? I beg your pardon, but who?


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

02-17-2013

Giltia Zero is an ex-player. He was basically playing League until they released DotA 2, because he prefers that. Mordekaiser was his favorite champion, and the point of never returning was when they nerfed him and never fixed him.

He generally hated everything, but he hated less the people who understood him.


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BlackIronBeast

Senior Member

02-17-2013

I've been on a winning streak with Middlekaiser but that's because it seems like no one is used to playing against him so they don't do easily simple things to counter him (like getting MR, jungler ganking mid, or building Guardian Angel). Here's a few things that I find make his early laning phase a breeze:

Masteries: 9/0/21 Arcane Knowledge in offensive tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 1/1 <----- Support tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 2/2
0/4 0/1 3/3 1/1
0/2 0/4 0/3 1/1
1/1 3/3
1/1
Flat AP Quints and Glyphs, Health Seals, MP Marks

Starting items: (automatically start with a biscuit and an explorer's ward) 2 wards and 9 pots.

I guard blue for my jungler and put the explorer's ward by enemy wraiths around 1:25 to get back in time for wolves. Someone (either top, our jungler, or me) almost always gets FB on the enemy jungler at red/wraiths when they are at low health. Now I can safely push the hell out of my lane for a good minute or two until the jungler catches up and I've got plenty of pots to sustain myself no matter who I am laning against. As soon as I have enough gold for the revolver, I go back to buy it without really having to worry about potions as much anymore. No boots? No problem! Still have those two wards that I can now place in the bushes on either side to run back to my tower in time before getting ganked. Constantly push the lane to put pressure on mid/deny the enemy of CS--go back to farm my wraiths/enemy wraiths and/or roam to another lane that is having trouble and mag dump Morde's combo on an unsuspecting victim. Second item to build would be Liandry's (so juicy on Morde). Build Hextech into a gunblade to add another combo unless you have some other AP users on your team that could benefit from WotA. Get a Rylai's and Abyssal Scepter--continue buying wards as you will most likely have more farm than everyone else and can afford to. 6th item is situational but with the MP from runes, boots, and scepter plus the AP from the other items, you'll have plenty of burst with your combo that why not throw another thousand health on top of your already fairly high HP? In team fights, focus on the enemy AD and AP carries--prioritizing the ADC. Your ult MUST go off on one of them (preferably the ADC) to turn the fight in your favor (and possibly get a pentakill). Save your flash for this fight if you can because you'll need it to get in range of the ADC to drop your combo on them. Make sure mace of spades is the first one you land on them because it's the only one you need to be in melee range for, ending it with the ignite and ult. Sit back, let the ghost take out their turrets, and hue until you see the victory screen.

This isn't going to work 100% of the time but in all of the games I've done this in I did the most damage to champions, got the most kills, took out the most turrets...pretty much carried the game.

All that being said, if anything were to change about him, it should be either making his shield a bit more shieldy or his W having some sort of escape component (reducing CC duration or increased movement speed or health regen and making it only a self targeting ability).

P.S.

If you are laning against Akali or their jungler is a stealth user, buy a pink ward instead of a green ward and suffer one or two less potions.

Also before this gets downvoted (you can still downvote it if you want though I could care less, really), just know that I got most of this advice from watching Scarra play Morde in the mid lane. Warmog's wins games--that advice comes from Dyrus. "Why? Put two ******* together and the one with more health will win!"


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Fawstus

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackIronBeast View Post
I've been on a winning streak with Middlekaiser but that's because it seems like no one is used to playing against him so they don't do easily simple things to counter him (like getting MR, jungler ganking mid, or building Guardian Angel). Here's a few things that I find make his early laning phase a breeze:

Masteries: 9/0/21 Arcane Knowledge in offensive tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 1/1 <----- Support tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 2/2
0/4 0/1 3/3 1/1
0/2 0/4 0/3 1/1
1/1 3/3
1/1
Flat AP Quints and Glyphs, Health Seals, MP Marks

Starting items: (automatically start with a biscuit and an explorer's ward) 2 wards and 9 pots.

I guard blue for my jungler and put the explorer's ward by enemy wraiths around 1:25 to get back in time for wolves. Someone (either top, our jungler, or me) almost always gets FB on the enemy jungler at red/wraiths when they are at low health. Now I can safely push the hell out of my lane for a good minute or two until the jungler catches up and I've got plenty of pots to sustain myself no matter who I am laning against. As soon as I have enough gold for the revolver, I go back to buy it without really having to worry about potions as much anymore. No boots? No problem! Still have those two wards that I can now place in the bushes on either side to run back to my tower in time before getting ganked. Constantly push the lane to put pressure on mid/deny the enemy of CS--go back to farm my wraiths/enemy wraiths and/or roam to another lane that is having trouble and mag dump Morde's combo on an unsuspecting victim. Second item to build would be Liandry's (so juicy on Morde). Build Hextech into a gunblade to add another combo unless you have some other AP users on your team that could benefit from WotA. Get a Rylai's and Abyssal Scepter--continue buying wards as you will most likely have more farm than everyone else and can afford to. 6th item is situational but with the MP from runes, boots, and scepter plus the AP from the other items, you'll have plenty of burst with your combo that why not throw another thousand health on top of your already fairly high HP? In team fights, focus on the enemy AD and AP carries--prioritizing the ADC. Your ult MUST go off on one of them (preferably the ADC) to turn the fight in your favor (and possibly get a pentakill). Save your flash for this fight if you can because you'll need it to get in range of the ADC to drop your combo on them. Make sure mace of spades is the first one you land on them because it's the only one you need to be in melee range for, ending it with the ignite and ult. Sit back, let the ghost take out their turrets, and hue until you see the victory screen.

This isn't going to work 100% of the time but in all of the games I've done this in I did the most damage to champions, got the most kills, took out the most turrets...pretty much carried the game.

All that being said, if anything were to change about him, it should be either making his shield a bit more shieldy or his W having some sort of escape component (reducing CC duration or increased movement speed or health regen and making it only a self targeting ability).

P.S.

If you are laning against Akali or their jungler is a stealth user, buy a pink ward instead of a green ward and suffer one or two less potions.

Also before this gets downvoted (you can still downvote it if you want though I could care less, really), just know that I got most of this advice from watching Scarra play Morde in the mid lane. Warmog's wins games--that advice comes from Dyrus. "Why? Put two ******* together and the one with more health will win!"

Hmmm... That remains to be tested... I will do it later today.

Also, I am sorry about Giltia Zero... I understand there is a fixed number of people at Riot that can be assigned to either develop new champs or work on old ones, and indeed, I understand very well that in a purely monetary outlook, it is much more lucrative to develop new champs, after all, they need money to keep runing a game like this, but seriously, there are champs like Morde that are in need of some work, at least IMO. Leaving then be for such a long time is frustrating to say the least.


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BlackIronBeast

Senior Member

02-18-2013

I agree that making new champions is lucrative but considering that new champs can just as easily be bought with "free" IP, the REAL money maker comes form the skins! Everyone loves a good skin--what better way to sell a skin than by coming back to an old champion, sparking up interest in them, and then simultaneously releasing a new skin for them? I hope this happens to Morde but I do want him to be balanced, I don't want them to make him overpowered just so that people will buy him to win.


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agbudar

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackIronBeast View Post
I agree that making new champions is lucrative but considering that new champs can just as easily be bought with "free" IP, the REAL money maker comes form the skins! Everyone loves a good skin--what better way to sell a skin than by coming back to an old champion, sparking up interest in them, and then simultaneously releasing a new skin for them? I hope this happens to Morde but I do want him to be balanced, I don't want them to make him overpowered just so that people will buy him to win.
yes finally someone who understands my dilemma

i like his dragon knight skin has an epic cloak

but id like to see a totally new concept skin for him as most of his skins are different colors except for penta kill morde (dont like)
and lord mordekaiser (its ok but wouldnt buy it)


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agbudar

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackIronBeast View Post
I've been on a winning streak with Middlekaiser but that's because it seems like no one is used to playing against him so they don't do easily simple things to counter him (like getting MR, jungler ganking mid, or building Guardian Angel). Here's a few things that I find make his early laning phase a breeze:

Masteries: 9/0/21 Arcane Knowledge in offensive tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 1/1 <----- Support tree
1/1 3/3 0/3 2/2
0/4 0/1 3/3 1/1
0/2 0/4 0/3 1/1
1/1 3/3
1/1
Flat AP Quints and Glyphs, Health Seals, MP Marks

Starting items: (automatically start with a biscuit and an explorer's ward) 2 wards and 9 pots.

I guard blue for my jungler and put the explorer's ward by enemy wraiths around 1:25 to get back in time for wolves. Someone (either top, our jungler, or me) almost always gets FB on the enemy jungler at red/wraiths when they are at low health. Now I can safely push the hell out of my lane for a good minute or two until the jungler catches up and I've got plenty of pots to sustain myself no matter who I am laning against. As soon as I have enough gold for the revolver, I go back to buy it without really having to worry about potions as much anymore. No boots? No problem! Still have those two wards that I can now place in the bushes on either side to run back to my tower in time before getting ganked. Constantly push the lane to put pressure on mid/deny the enemy of CS--go back to farm my wraiths/enemy wraiths and/or roam to another lane that is having trouble and mag dump Morde's combo on an unsuspecting victim. Second item to build would be Liandry's (so juicy on Morde). Build Hextech into a gunblade to add another combo unless you have some other AP users on your team that could benefit from WotA. Get a Rylai's and Abyssal Scepter--continue buying wards as you will most likely have more farm than everyone else and can afford to. 6th item is situational but with the MP from runes, boots, and scepter plus the AP from the other items, you'll have plenty of burst with your combo that why not throw another thousand health on top of your already fairly high HP? In team fights, focus on the enemy AD and AP carries--prioritizing the ADC. Your ult MUST go off on one of them (preferably the ADC) to turn the fight in your favor (and possibly get a pentakill). Save your flash for this fight if you can because you'll need it to get in range of the ADC to drop your combo on them. Make sure mace of spades is the first one you land on them because it's the only one you need to be in melee range for, ending it with the ignite and ult. Sit back, let the ghost take out their turrets, and hue until you see the victory screen.

This isn't going to work 100% of the time but in all of the games I've done this in I did the most damage to champions, got the most kills, took out the most turrets...pretty much carried the game.

All that being said, if anything were to change about him, it should be either making his shield a bit more shieldy or his W having some sort of escape component (reducing CC duration or increased movement speed or health regen and making it only a self targeting ability).

P.S.

If you are laning against Akali or their jungler is a stealth user, buy a pink ward instead of a green ward and suffer one or two less potions.

Also before this gets downvoted (you can still downvote it if you want though I could care less, really), just know that I got most of this advice from watching Scarra play Morde in the mid lane. Warmog's wins games--that advice comes from Dyrus. "Why? Put two ******* together and the one with more health will win!"
ye i do these things good luck getting a decent team in ranked btw is anyone else having the same problem with ranked that no matter how many times you try you just keep getting a vayne with ap runes or an adc that dc's? sry for going off topic

solo que i have no problems winning my lane but even if i win the lane it's not because i have a better champ but a champ that ive used around 500 times by now. from this you inevitably get experience so even if i would play against a champ considered OP i can still win cuz i make up for it with experience that being said i cant help but feel he needs a balancing even with all that experience you can't perform miracles and there is a point of no return there is a reason why you will BARELY see him in ranked.

my point is
there should be NO champion in the league considered a bad pick for ranked if you look at how many times he's picked in ranked you know the answer