Zephyr VS. Phantom Dancer, on the ADC?

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MyTakeGaming

Member

02-07-2013

Welcome! First let's take a look at the facts...

Zephyr.
+20 attack damage.
+50% attack speed.
+10% movement speed.
+10% cooldown reduction.
Tenacity: The duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, silences, blinds and immobilizes are reduced by 35%.

Price: 2,850g

Phantom Dancer.
+50% attack speed.
+30% critical strike chance.
+5% movement speed.
Unique Passive: Your champion ignores unit collision.

Price: 2,800g


So if we get Zephyr instead of Phantom Dancer we are trading...

+30% critical strike chance.
+Unique Passive: Your champion ignores unit collision.
+50g cheaper.

For

+10% cooldown reduction.
+5% movement speed.
+20 attack damage.
+Tenacity

So why do people not build this?
Crit. chance is HUGE on some ADCs (Ashe, Cait. ECT)

However wouldn't CDR be a better stat on someone like Graves or Sivir?

The answer is simple, IT IS!
Someone like Graves who has short range and needs his skills to do most of his dps SHOULD get Zephyr in my opinion.

So why don't they?

Because nobody realizes Zephyr exists, however I'm trying to open a few eyes.


So my question for you today is, why don't more people build this item?


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Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Exactly because no crit, that is enough of a reason.

Zephyrs combine cost is HUMONGOUS considering tenacity does not serve them well usually ad they will die anyways if hard-cc'd.

Also, Zephyr is not even DESIGNED with ad-carries in mind, it is designed for attackspeed-centered bruisers and tanks who don't want mercury treads, it is designed for champs like Shen, Irelia, Jax, Nocturne, Shyvana etc.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuan Shikai View Post
Also, Zephyr is not even DESIGNED with ad-carries in mind, it is designed for attackspeed-centered bruisers and tanks who don't need mercury treads, it is designed for champs like Shen, Irelia, Jax, Nocturne, Shyvana etc.
Fixed

Cause everyone's had at least one game where the enemy magic damage was nonexistent.


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PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

02-07-2013

This is an extremely situational comparison. It depends on the Ranged AD in question, the enemy team, the point in the game, and who's ahead. You can't make a sweeping statement about this kind of thing.

That being said, it seems like a great item on Vayne.


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jmlinden7

Senior Member

02-07-2013

You mention that crit chance is important on some ad carries, that is false, it is essential to every ad carry. It is the only thing that makes them do more damage than bruisers and lets them kill tanks in a reasonable amount of time. You should not get Zephyr as a replacement for phantom dancer, it is a replacement for boots if you get that far because it gives a lot of movespeed and utility. Ad carries need damage first and foremost.


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Ill Darkistino

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Yeah, I play Vayne and Zephyr is awful on her. It just can't compete with PD+IE combo.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmlinden7 View Post
You mention that crit chance is important on some ad carries, that is false, it is essential to every ad carry. It is the only thing that makes them do more damage than bruisers and lets them kill tanks in a reasonable amount of time. You should not get Zephyr as a replacement for phantom dancer, it is a replacement for boots if you get that far because it gives a lot of movespeed and utility. Ad carries need damage first and foremost.
The thing that makes AD Carries AD carries is the ability to scale damage exponentially as the game goes on. In season 2 the attributes available were attack damage, attack speed, and critical strikes. In season 3 you have attack damage, attack speed, critical strikes, armor penetration, and multi-target damage. Cooldown reduction can also significantly increase the DPS on various AD Carries - especially if you can constantly keep steroid abilities in play.

It also really doesn't matter the order you get such multipliers in or what the precise consistency is in every item. Picking up one item with 100 AD and another with 100% AS accomplishes the same thing as picking up a 40 AD 40% AS item an a 60 AD 60% AS item in the end.

So no, critical strike damage is not essential to every AD carry, nor is it essential on items like Zephyr for an ADC to find it useful.


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Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post

So no, critical strike damage is not essential to every AD carry, nor is it essential on items like Zephyr for an ADC to find it useful.

Critical strike damage might not be essential anymore, but if you build no CS, you also don't want to/need to build massive atatck speed, cause the synergy with Crit is what makes attackspeed good on ad-carries in the first place.

An item with low AD and high aspd is coutner-intuitive. it does not mesh well in a high ad build due to the lack of ad and it does not mesh well in an auto atatck oriented build cause it does not have crit. There is NEVER any situation where building attack speed without crit makes any sense on an adc.


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Armageddal

Senior Member

02-08-2013

I think people don't build it because it only gives +20 attack damage, and tenacity isn't that great on AD carries. Of course Tenacity is good, but trading 30% crit chance (which is a huge DPS increase) for it isn't really worth it in my opinion. If you get hit by CC and don't have cleanse or QSS to get out of it, it doesn't matter if it's 35% shorter, the enemy is already on you and you're probably dead.

It's mostly used on bruisers that make good use of AS, like Irelia.

It might be good on Vayne though, since she likes high AD and attack speed. Still, you need to have Crit on her too.


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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

02-08-2013

The better comparison is shank to PD, Zephyrs isn't really designed for typical RADC's

The only one that might be close to that classification is Kayle and she's more of hybrid ranged bruiser than RADC.


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