I'm wondering what can be done to stop this

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Keitterman

Senior Member

02-06-2013

So in a pug, we all decided to pick champs that pull in some direction. The team was:

Darius
Naut
Blitz
Thresh
Leona

it was amazing. I'm wondering, what could be done about it? We had a good mix of AP/AD, amazing initiation, and total control of the fights. three of us had iceborn guantlets, sunfire capes, and divine bulwarks.

Just wondering what thoughts people have on this, because i was thinking, if i was the other team, I don't know what I'd do.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-06-2013

You'd take Alistar, Amumu, and Morgana with a side of Vayne and Riven and violently rape the **** out of yourselves in teamfights while dodging most of the grabs, duh.

Alistar, Amumu, and Morg all WANT you to jump all in on them, and if you don't go all in at once, Vayne and Riven step up and shred your asses to hell while countering any attempts at initiation.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
You'd take Alistar, Amumu, and Morgana with a side of Vayne and Riven and violently rape the **** out of yourselves in teamfights while dodging most of the grabs, duh.
The dodge argument is flawed because it's countered with "but they have good aim"
besides, with Naut's opener (ult) aiming wasn't even hard


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DingoHedge

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Build massive amounts of health and armor. You say you have a good mixed amount of AD and AP but honestly i don't think you deal enough magic dmg with a team like that to really warrant anything else. An entire team of Thornmails + Sunfire Capes and you'd probably have an embarrassing defeat on your hands. Dunno though, despite that idea it's still a pretty terrifying team.


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Jonheath291

Senior Member

02-06-2013

You should switch Leona for Diana for some better damage


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitterman View Post
The team was:

Darius
Naut
Blitz
Thresh
Leona
blitz has some sort of damage
thresh can eventually do damage
darius is perfectly capable of damage but heavily lacking in utility.

nautilus, leona, and thresh are the most tankish one's (because theyre tanks probably :P) but ultimately what you have here is a team of melee tanky champs and a ranged-ish tank (thresh)

Now lets look at what this team has going for it.
Early on naut leona and thresh will most likely not be doing too much pushing. Darius won't be able to do much and blitz will need a combo buddy with damage. Use this oppourtunity to spam your brute force tactics and get a tower or some sort of advantage. Perhaps dragon.. whatever they aren't gonna do much even if you leave lane.

Once they start building items, see who's a tank and who's gonna try and build for damage. I'm guessing there will be a ton of buffs and debuffs all around. You will want to build some antitank items like liandris and blade of the ruined king and all that. Remember that your goal is not to steamroll them but to be able to make aggressive plays later on. Once you see who's gonna be janky and who's gonna deal damage and you counterbuild you need to get ready for aggressive play because with normal builds (glass cannon assassins and all that) you are gonna have a weird time.

Things you will need after this point.
You will probably want somebody who can deal tons of sustained damage.
You will probably want somebody who can use crowd control against people looking to take advantage of the enemy crowd control.
You will want somebody who can burst down whoever MUST be focused on their team.

In this case it will most likely be darius on a team with tons of CC, bonus damage and darius and all them dragging out fights way too long which he absolutely thrives on. For this same reason you will probably want an escape plan. Usually this is a job left to supports and tanks.

Against a team like this you will probably want to drag the game out a bit but beware of thresh's passive. He will get too strong to easily deal with overtime.

Chase after objectives and farm hard. A team like this is dependant upon being able to pick big fights as a single unit as no matter how you split their team one half will be not so well suited for a fight as well as the fact none of them are truely equiped for persuit or pushing except maybe blitz i think... I forget if he can just speedboost on command.

Anyways, if you push lanes and clear jungles fast there is absolutely no way in hell this team is going to outpace you as a whole since they are lacking in such farm power unless they all build for damage in which case they will just get steamrolled like noobs anyways. Grab gold advantage and ward, remmeber that none of them can afford to get caught alone especially if youre pulling ahead in team gold advantage every so many minutes. Be sure to invade their territory and avoid fighting them if possible since remember they cannot afford to go around solo or with just one friend unless it happens to be blitz or darius or thresh if its really really late in the game.

Eventually, assuming you can't just backdoor the **** out of them or steamroll them anyways, you will want to continously invade their jungle and not push lanes much. You will starve them and pull ahead in gold. They will have to travel in packs just to grab buffs while you can be in and out of anywhere and deal significan't damage, especially your sustained damage dealer (this is typically a carry). Without guaranteed CS without risk of getting hit like a truck by the opposing team not even thresh can afford to turtle and hope the game goes on long enough to gain the advantage.

Darius will fall off.
Leona will be a tank or fall off.
same goes for nautilus though he can do some sort of damage if he goes that route, not a big deal.
blitz will fall off.

As long as your carry can't be reached easily they WILL get fed since nobody on this team really has a way to force their way to the carry and blow them straight to hell (something an assassin does) and even if they did they have no escapes (which assassins often have). You will not need more than 1 sustained damage dealer for this reason as well. The rest of the team may want to build for long fights. Mages will want mana regen, melee's will want defense and CDR, blahblahblah.


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Alvan Yakatori

Senior Member

02-06-2013

voli and singed flippin people everywhere.


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MelloRed

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Lux, Zig, Xerath, Janna, and a a quick ADC.

Void staffs, railys and torment all around. The ADC can run 4 phantoms for speed.

Kite till they drop.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
*shortened*
I would agree with your analysis, but there were a few factors working for us.

We all built aura/tanky. the only thing that made one of us more desireable to kill that the other was the kill counts, with Darius on top and Leona second, followed by blitz, while thresh and Naut had close to none.

First, Blitz and Thresh laned bot and did a good job of getting CS, and even a couple kills early without the jungler assisting.

Jungler was Leona (me). I did fine clearing as speedy as i could, at lvl four I dove in on a mid lane gank (Naut) that resulted in a double kill for me and a dead Naut. He would have struggled, but every time i was traversing the map i'd swing by and drop a WEQ combo on mid and walk away to keep them low or dead.

Darius was top and he got hurt. A lot. I can't recall who he was up against, but they shut him down so much that i would use him as bait to get them from his tower, we jumped top about 3 to 4 times with a kill every time.

The early game was ours. Their rengar jungling got counter jungled by Leo because i often used his jungle to get to top and bot so i wouldn't hit any wards.

mid game went bad because we were in the habit of just running in to them and killing them, they grouped we didn't, they caught up.

After that, we grouped up and just won (after several team fights). There was no possible way for them to come out ahead in an engagement. They tried to backdoor, but without all five there, it was that much faster for us to kill them and push. Leo with the elder lizard spirit stone clear creep waves just fine, and whatever she doesn't is easily dropped by a Darius spin or other similar aoe to proc her passive.

All in all, even when they pulled ahead in kills, the abiilty for our team to pick any one of them and drop them was just too simple. Between Naut's ult, Leo's ult, the battle always happend right on top of the person we wanted dead. Since most of the cc was in the form of pulls or knockups, even tenacity wouldn't answer it.

it was a long game, i remember seeing the timer at 45 min.

I was just suprised that a standard meta team really didn't have an answer, and only had anything going for them when we started playing bad and thinking we were gods.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitterman View Post
I would agree with your analysis, but there were a few factors working for us.

We all built aura/tanky. the only thing that made one of us more desireable to kill that the other was the kill counts, with Darius on top and Leona second, followed by blitz, while thresh and Naut had close to none.

First, Blitz and Thresh laned bot and did a good job of getting CS, and even a couple kills early without the jungler assisting.

Jungler was Leona (me). I did fine clearing as speedy as i could, at lvl four I dove in on a mid lane gank (Naut) that resulted in a double kill for me and a dead Naut. He would have struggled, but every time i was traversing the map i'd swing by and drop a WEQ combo on mid and walk away to keep them low or dead.

Darius was top and he got hurt. A lot. I can't recall who he was up against, but they shut him down so much that i would use him as bait to get them from his tower, we jumped top about 3 to 4 times with a kill every time.

The early game was ours. Their rengar jungling got counter jungled by Leo because i often used his jungle to get to top and bot so i wouldn't hit any wards.

mid game went bad because we were in the habit of just running in to them and killing them, they grouped we didn't, they caught up.

After that, we grouped up and just won (after several team fights). There was no possible way for them to come out ahead in an engagement. They tried to backdoor, but without all five there, it was that much faster for us to kill them and push. Leo with the elder lizard spirit stone clear creep waves just fine, and whatever she doesn't is easily dropped by a Darius spin or other similar aoe to proc her passive.

All in all, even when they pulled ahead in kills, the abiilty for our team to pick any one of them and drop them was just too simple. Between Naut's ult, Leo's ult, the battle always happend right on top of the person we wanted dead. Since most of the cc was in the form of pulls or knockups, even tenacity wouldn't answer it.

it was a long game, i remember seeing the timer at 45 min.

I was just suprised that a standard meta team really didn't have an answer, and only had anything going for them when we started playing bad and thinking we were gods.
The standard metateam is actually really good for this.. but only if ppl understand their roles


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