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Dodge penalty = reward idiots, penalize people who care

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fenderjazz

Member

02-03-2013

Skipping right to it - "Queue Dodging" (or something like it) needs to be available to players. Everyone ought to be able to veto their inclusion in a randomly assembled team prior to starting the game without suffering a rating penalty. This makes sense as a principle; it isn't ARAM. Everyone on the team should have a veto button so that when that timer counts down, everyone has effectively ok'd and committed to playing the game as-is, and hasn't simply been coerced into staying with an obviously bad team by the prospect of losing 3 LP otherwise.

It isn't hard to see why there has to be a way to avoid playing with people who instantly identify themselves as trolls- people who clearly don't care about the competitive/winning aspect of playing ranked, are trolling on purpose, act like infants, start cussing people out, use racist insults, or they're afk and end up random-selecting a champion when it's their turn. (That last one should be an automatic re-queue for EVERYONE except the person who was afk, who should get the 30 minute timer. This or similar solutions have been suggested elsewhere.)

I was quite interested to see how this new system was going to do. I had recently started playing ranked with the goal of seeing how high I could get, and to see if it was legitimately possible to carry one's way out of the doldrums. I was making decent progress and did my best to make most team comps work but there were many games where I'd get a terrible feeling during champ select. Players cussing each other out, using racial epithets, trolling, afk... In those situations, I learned to trust my troll detector instinct and I would dodge. This cost me the ability to play a ranked game that night, but I would rather wait a whole day than play with those guys. That's a fair and acceptable penalty in my book.

This little ranked experiment has been cut short by the introduction the new system.. a system where we are penalized for analyzing the trollishness of our teams and deciding we would rather not spend the next 30-60 minutes of our lives regretting getting into the queue to begin with.

How can it be so hard to mitigate these problems? Why isn't there a more innovative solution for this? Further, why isn't there a "loss prevented" for when the system detects an afk person? Or a disconnected person? A 4v5 should be really easy to detect and yet there are no provisions made to protect players who care about their competitive ratings against trolls. How about a "report for trolling" or something similar (for excessive cases) after the game finishes where top Tribunal contributors can review and issue a loss prevented for the team members who had to deal with the troll?

Instead of coming up with a solution to this problem, Riot took one away - one that players had settled on. They left us with nothing except the hope that our motivation and enjoyment of the game were enough to overcome the disappointment and frustration of getting stuck with trolls. I'm just shocked. It seems like such a thoughtless decision from a design team that tends to put a lot of thought into the game.


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korcho

Junior Member

02-03-2013

Only read the first paragraph.
Problem is that then kids will queue dodge every time they don't get to play their favorite champion and no one will ever play a ranked game again.


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fenderjazz

Member

02-03-2013

I'd rather everyone get to play their favorite champs than give them a reason to troll. And eventually you'd have a team setup that everyone is ok with.

Elsewhere people have suggested things like some MMO's have implemented for dungeon/raids... team finders where you sign up for particular roles. Maybe something like that would be in order. I'm just saying that queue timers was a better solution than docking LP.


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Havnt

Member

02-03-2013

it really needs to be either one way or the other. i agree with you mr nice bass guitar


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fenderjazz

Member

02-03-2013

I don't use the Fender anymore but it's up on my wall next to my real baby, Ibanez BTB 5 string.


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sepetaiya

Senior Member

02-03-2013

removing elo penalty for dodging was the best thing riot ever did

now they have given power back to the trolls who do not care if their team wins or loses, they care what position and champ they play. and they will now troll harder to get it since they know you will not dodge because you dont want to lose points for it.

we loved you and gave you our hearts riot. and you broke them into little pieces with a smile on your face.

Edit: a different red needs to be assigned to this thread.
kiddington says the dodge penalty is there to keep players in check (translation follows) that have the SKILL and the knowledge of the game to use dodge to their advantage and micromanage advancement.

so you want to punish skilled players who know the game and also innocent players who want to dodge away from trolls because you dont want them to advance?

i would trade a permaban of my account to see kiddington fired.


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Havnt

Member

02-03-2013

it makes sense if you are 2800 elo in the old system - they had 28min solo que times on ave. but NOT in bronze/silver/gold...


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fenderjazz

Member

02-03-2013

I agree that removing the penalty was a really good move. I'm not sure what prompted this and yes I did read Yegg's post.


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fenderjazz

Member

02-04-2013

Sweet. Just lost a game that I would have totally dodged. Got a guy who was d/c for the first 5+ minutes, and a guy who was speaking in all caps that ended up feeding and losing the game for us during the fights.

I think i went 11/7/somethin. Did my best to stay helpful and positive. Didn't matter, lost a bunch of LP, felt frustrated, gave up on ranked again. Best game ever, thanks Riot!


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Mystoffire

Junior Member

02-04-2013

Here is a situation. You get people who are just raging at everyone to troll hard who decide to **** your team comp and ignore everyone else. If you play the match with them you find you lose because of that 1 person. If you queue dodge you get penalized for a loss, lose the LP you would have had you played it, and you get a timer till you can queue again. People who rage or troll force you to lose LP and time no matter what... Unless you are playing a hyper carry and are in a lane position you dominate in. What are you supposed to do to get out of bronze with all of this?