I actually understand the new system fairly well, AMA

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TravagGames

Senior Member

02-02-2013

I seem to have a steady grasp of how this system works...


The dr will try to help u guys understand...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphíra View Post
What's the exact formula to calculate LP gain/loss?

Exact formula I don't know.. But I do know that behind ur division placement you have a hidden matchmaking rating... Now this rating determines if you are stronger average or weaker then ur current division... If you are stronger.. You gain more lp per win then u would s lose.. This is because the system has shown that u are stronger then the people in ur division( via ur matchmaking rating being higher).. If you are weaker you lose more lp per loss then win...

A lot of players right now are viewed as weaker then their current division and that Is causing this outrage of pissed players...

The only way for your division to view u as stronger is to continue winning... Ignore the lp gains and losses right now..,as long as u continue to win, ur matchmaking rating will go up... Therefore you will begin to gain more lp for wins then u would lose for a loss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brolaf View Post
What is the consequence of losing many games at div5?

Losing many games in division 5 will not drop ur tier but it will drop ur matchmaking rating..

Your matchmaking rating determines who u are facing, not ur division or tier.

So lets say bob gets boosted to platinum elo via paying some booster...

When he decides to play he thinks he is forever plat... Well it's sorta true... Unfortunately for bob... He loses matchmaking rating since he is simply not a plat player.. Eventually his matchmaking rating will drop so low that winning games wiill gain him like 1lp while losing games will lose him 50... And since the match making rating determines who u are facing .. Bob will be facing people in his matchmaking rating... Which is let's say, bronze league players.. So even though bob is forever plat.. He will be facing bronze league players forever..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brolaf View Post
That being said, if you lose lots and face lower players wont it become easier to eventually get that 100 score?

Even if that's the case. You need to win like 98%.. Since he is gaining 1 and losing 50+ lol and odds are bob will stop dropping when he reaches the point when he wins about 50-55%


Unless he drops to 0 elo a wins 100% he won't move anywhere... And at that low of an elo I doubt he even receives a point for winning


The system will never reward players who lose too much

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXLeradineXx View Post
Do divisions actually mean anything? I'm D3 and two back to back matches today, 5th pick was D5 explain pls. Edit, also only 1 match was a duoque.

Divisions don't mean anything in terms of matchmaking no.. You get paired up according to matchmaking rating.. It is actually possible for a diamond division 5 player to get paired up with bronze league players if that diamond players matchmaking rating was low enough. ( via losing dozens and dozens and dozens of games from trolling or getting boosted in the first place)


Divisions do mean something outside of matchmaking.. They are levels of accomplishment and it is suppose to make players want to strive for goals like 1st in league or winning a promotional series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarvalOfDeath View Post
I like this system but i have two questions:

a) Are there any tiers below bronz? And if each League has a max 250 players... how many leagues are there per tiere and per division? I imagine that they should be a lot
b)Although this might not be really well recieved i think demotion should be a posibility. Its only fair that if you lose too much games on a certain division (or if you are in division 5 and lose many games) you should go down. Why hasnt this been done? I know Leagues, Tiers and Divisions are only there to create achievable short term goals and dont have in actual impact on who you play against or the general stuff that happens on ranked games but still... (also i know that who you play against is determined by hidden elo not by which division/tier you are on)

1) nothing below bronze division 5 but the matchmaking rating can potentially be endless..

2) riot wants to make it feel like if u reach a new tier u should earn it forever.. Now there is a bad thing about losing alot of games at the bottom of a tier..other then paring with lower tier players. Ur matchmaking gets lower nd lower... Thus when u wins games... You won't gain as much lp and when u lose games u will lose a lot.. Therefore players who lose a lot at division 5 will have a really really really tough time trying to move any higher. So that's the other side effect of losing games at the bottom of a division.


Oh and as for the amount of leagues.. I'm not sure but there is enough room to fit u in if u deserve to be there lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knote View Post
Wait a minute, so are leagues/divisions essentially glorified ranked borders? You can be in plat (have a plat border) but are actually in bronze ELO?

Most players who reach plat deserve plat and may drop to gold level matchmaking but get back play matchmaking with some work...

Players who are plat league but drop so low that they have bronze level matchmaking were boosted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzSkillshot View Post
I really don't want that to happen though when I get to Gold I for my best of 5s, that seems a lot harder than the old system. :/
(upon reaching promotional series)

Well harder because ur gaining something permentely.. U have to think of it like a sport.. There is seasons and playoffs.. The best team can play all year so well only to lose in the playoffs.. That's like this system.. Luckily you don't have to wait a year haha. It's suppose to be dynamic and really feel rewarding... At the same time it's gonna be utterly painful to lose promotional series... But dam it's gonna give you a huge rush of adrenalin and anxiety lol.

Side note... Wouldn't sports be boring if the season ends and the team with the most points or best record wins? Lol that's kind of the difference in the systems
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murcom View Post
Dr. Sexy i won 5 games in a row and only gained a total of 29 lp does that mean League doesn't think i'm in the right division or something?
Based on how little you gained per game if you lose a game you will probably lose more quite a bit more then u gained per match. By the looks of it yes.. It thinks ur under qualified. This is the case for alottttt of people though so don't fret.. The more the u win the more ur matchmaking rating will rise.. So even if u lose ur lp on a loss, don't worry.. U just have to adjust to the level.. Going 10-2 and having 0 or little lp is not bad.. It may look discouraging but ur actually raising ur matchmaking level and therefore future lp gains will raise and losses will lower

Quote:
Originally Posted by lileeper View Post
Theres a cat sitting on my lap. Will I lose LP?
If he sits on your lap for 4 weeks and u don't move him to play league, you will decay and fall out of ur division and potentially tier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pewpewmagoo View Post
I'm going to give you my full story here.

Pre-League System Rating: 1522

1522 placed me into Silver D1. Leading up to 1522 I was on a 6 game winning streak and then stopped ranked. Completely okay with the placement.

Proceed to play ranked when the system is out and lost 2 in a row. No LP loss because I was fresh to the system. Followed by 3 wins (75 LP), 1 loss (55 LP), into my last 4 games which were all wins (96 LP).

This is all fine and dandy except for a couple of major flaws that aren't seen yet. All of my games after the 3 initial wins my opponents were gold D1/2/3 and my last two games both included one Plat D5. My last two games which were both wins gave me 3 points each.

If the math were not completely screwy I would reasonably be at least one WIN into a promotional series, but I have yet to even qualify for one. This is a different problem which was that the entire time I was queuing with a friend who was also 1520s before the new system. We played every single game together and he received his promotional matches on the 7th and last ranked game. Why would he receive it and I wouldn't considering how similar our cases are?

Finally how is it fair to challenge promotional matches based on the very best of the next tier? If a platinum player is diamond worth should he not be facing the AVERAGE diamond player? Meaning that he would be facing people in D3 Diamond.

On a side note: If my MMR was a lot higher than where I was considering I was facing people much higher than Silver and Low gold would it not mean I should.. have recieved a larger sum of LP? If so why did I win 3 LP for a game against 1 Plat, 3 Gold D1s, and 1 Gold D2?
Kk gonna try to break this down. As it stands ur gaining and losing an appropriate amount of lp.. Ur friends disparity may be caused by number of wins.. This is the only other thing that weighs ur losses amid Gains aside from matchmaking but it's not nearly as considered.. Your friend is only gonna gain a game or two advantage if this is the case.

As for the divsion 5 plat guy.. He has probably lost allot of games in the beginning so far placing him in lower matchmaking but since he can't drop the tier he remains in the plat tier. But u shouldn't worry about what tiers people are in since their matchmaking level is suppose to be similar to yours.. Basically that plat d5 is playing like **** at and has dropped quite a bit.


You are not gonna gain more depending on what tiers and divisions the enemy is in since this is has no effect on matchmaking at all. They may be ahead according to leagues but they are around even according to their hidden rating.

You begin to gain less lp as u move up to the top of ur tier.. This is because the system is testing u to see if you are fully ready to be permanently assigned a new tier. It basically judges you as the next tier and this is what causes the lower lp gains

Also wanted to add.. Those players who were 1520+ and put into silver 1 are going to have an easier time moving up. a 1530 preseason was put into a division that includes a 1450 preseason is going to find that division gains to be alot more balanced.. Say win 22lp lose 18. While that 1450 will gain 13lp lose 25..
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I wanna talk about dodging really quick.. I'm not sure how dodging placement games works so I'm gonna avoid talking about that.. However dodging game once ur in a league will only result in losing lp, not matchmaking rating.. Therefore if u dodge games and lose lp (maybe a division) the matchmaking system will view you as too strong for ur current division (becassue u were mached perfectly with ur old division) and lp gains will rise and losses will lower.. So in the short run dodging may seem like it hurts ( though 1lp is nothing). It will actually balance out due to ur unchanged matchmaking rating. Lemme explain why dodging isn't as painful as it sounds with this example.

Lets say there is a gold division 1 player whose matchmaking rating is equal to that of a high gold player... Lets say for fun he dodges games on purpose till he reaches gold 5.... Now dodges drop ur lp.. Not ur matchmaking rating.. Since his matchmaking is way higher then division 5.. He will gain massive lp for winning games.. He will even skip divisions. Therefore he will be back in gold 1 extremely quick.

The reason why that 1 point or 10point(promotional series dodge puts u to70-90 points) loss exists is so that people at division 1 who despretrly want to get the next tier don't continually dodge and only play matches they see favourable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LitteBlooFox View Post
Question.

So im in gold 1 but im near the bottom and have only played one game. im like second to last and there are 40 people in my gold 1. Is it possible for me to drop down to gold ll if im last and someone from gold 2 wins their promotion match and takes my place?
No one can take ur place via climbing.. U can only drop once losing games once u have 0 lp..

Being near the btm is the result of lp since that's what the league ranks by... If u have the same lp as alot of people in ur league, the system will use wins as a tiebreaker.. So it is common that a player with 20 wins who just got promoted to be at the very bottom of the league..
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To comment on why people are getting less and less gains as they reach 90 points;
This is because u are at the very top of ur tier and about to promote urself to a new tier FOREVER!!
The system is slowing ur lp gains to make sure u really deserve to move up a whole tier.. They do this so people with lucky streaks can't acheive a tier so easily but the people who deserve it will. The main thing to understand is that this move is permanent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbl0w View Post
Hey OP, great thread!
.

So here is the question: could you think of any reason, why people werent placed in the League the system thinks they belong to in the first place. that way everyone would have started with an even gain/loss ratio?
.
Ye I can generally tell u why people weren't placed into their right division in the first place... Basically it's because riot changed the value of each tier.. Example.. gold tier isn't old gold..
They altered the system drastically.. So drastically that former the former 1500 bench mark is now like silver tier 3.. Now u saw how much people raged when they were 1500+ put into silver 1... Imagine riot put them into silver 3 lol.. I think riot knew people would be mad at the overall demotion (even though they aren't technically dropping). So basically riot placed a lot of people higher then they are suppose to be to lessen the blow. That's my reason anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbl0w View Post

But that's only one side. What about people who gain more than they lose? They are out there and I saw quite a few of them. So it's not genereally "we put you in a higher division than you should be".

Really, thank you again for your effort. I try my best to redirect everyone to this thread, as it has become some kind of reference for the new system.
Ye some players where placed too low.. This is common for people placed in division 1 of a tier but should have been division 5 of the next... The system placed them lower just to be safe since if they were placed in division 5 of the next tier they would have that tier unlocked forever.

Example; the people who were 1550+ put in silver 1 are gaining more lp then losing.

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Gonna talk about what happens when u lose a promotional series.. Some ppl are unclear on how much lp u will have once ur done. The lp is measured by the wins and losses of ur promotional series wins/losses.. So lets say u went 1-2 and u Normally gain 15 lp and lose 30 (15+15). You will be put at 85lp.. So on that note, if you start of ur series and have already lost in the first 2 games, or 3 games if ur doing a best of 5.. Don't troll the rest of the games as if they mean nothing.. As mentioned those lp losses and gains apply..

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Saphíra

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-02-2013

What's the exact formula to calculate LP gain/loss?


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TravagGames

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphíra View Post
What's the exact formula to calculate LP gain/loss?

Exact formula I don't know.. But I do know that behind ur division placement you have a hidden matchmaking rating... Now this rating determines if you are stronger average or weaker then ur current division... If you are stronger.. You gain more lp per win then u would s lose.. This is because the system has shown that u are stronger then the people in ur division( via ur matchmaking rating being higher).. If you are weaker you lose more lp per loss then win...

A lot of players right now are viewed as weaker then their current division and that Is causing this outrage of pissed players...

The only way for your division to view u as stronger is to continue winning... Ignore the lp gains and losses right now..,as long as u continue to win, ur matchmaking rating will go up... Therefore you will begin to gain more lp for wins then u would lose for a loss


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TravagGames

Senior Member

02-02-2013

People Downvoted me when I'm trying to help lol... So mad


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messymike

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Senior Member

02-02-2013

why did i get matched with imthorrbo on my team for my 3rd placement match

and why does he get to have a platinum border when he doesn't think wards are useful after lane phase


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I Shake Babies

Senior Member

02-02-2013

LOL, I love how people downvote when they find out there's nothing to actually b!tch about. The ignorance in this community is simply appalling. Well said in your explanation, OP. That is the exact way the Rioters have been describing the system. Bads will be bad, and will lose when they should, putting them in the Tier they belong.


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vulcz

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Séxy View Post
I seem to have a steady grasp of how this system works... I understand the lp gains and losses... I understand the consequences of losing non stop if u are in division 5, etc



I will try to help u guys understand... I will probably get Downvoted since most players right now think they are being completely screwed over but its not what it appears

What is the consequence of losing many games at div5?


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Brightinly

Senior Member

02-02-2013

How can you sleep knowing how this evil piece of coding works?


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Daemonicsol

Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightinly View Post
How can you sleep knowing how this evil piece of coding works?
probably happy not to be ignorant.


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TravagGames

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brolaf View Post
What is the consequence of losing many games at div5?

Losing many games in division 5 will not drop ur tier but it will drop ur matchmaking rating..

Your matchmaking rating determines who u are facing, not ur division or tier.

So lets say bob gets boosted to platinum elo via paying some booster...

When he decides to play he thinks he is forever plat... Well it's sorta true... Unfortunately for bob... He loses matchmaking rating since he is simply not a plat player.. Eventually his matchmaking rating will drop so low that winning games wiill gain him like 1lp while losing games will lose him 50... And since the match making rating determines who u are facing .. Bob will be facing people in his matchmaking rating... Which is let's say, bronze league players.. So even though bob is forever plat.. He will be facing bronze league players forever..


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