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Shaco Nerf Makes 0 Sense..

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Minishmaster

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Morello:
because a 500-range instant teleport with that cooldown, alone, is one of the most powerful abilities in League.

Speaking of... how is Ezreal doing today?


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Brother Of Dux

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Release skin
Nerf Shaco
**** you riot, seriously


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Rhadeonyc

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
WhackedRak:
Honestly number changes aren't the right direction for Shaco. He needs ability reworks, not just number tweaks. Pretty much all of Shaco's moves have been nerfed to be one-point wonders, where leveling them doesn't give many benefits(certainly not as many as the average champion) Deceive damage isn't too useful as most of the time he won't be using that crit, and Jack in the Box is soo unreliable and fragile, you can't count on the longer 2 second fear or the increased damage they provide since they'll probably be blown up pretty quick or activated 2 seconds too late. E is the only skill worth leveling for the increased damage on the active and perma slow, nerfing this hard will make all his moves one-point wonders. If this is the only solution to nerf Shaco at this point, he needs A REWORK.

Shaco is my main. He came out the week I started LoL, and have loved him/abused him ever since. Granted I'm too ***** to play ranked, I still have probably over 750 games played with him and I suspect my normal ELO is pretty high; I was 2k before LoLMatches stopped tracking normal ELO, and my Win/Loss Diff has only widened since then. I love assassins, they are my favorite role. I try to snowball Shaco with IE/Youmuus whenever I can. Crit Shaco was the reason I fell in love with LoL. But after grinding so many games, I've narrowed down and found tanky support Shaco to be the most effective and guaranteed way to win the game. When ganking, I try to give as many kills to my teammates as possible, to ensure they continue to win their lane. Nowadays, if the game even has the slight smell of possibly going sour later, I build Hexdrinker, GA(see youngMINI), but if we're completely crushing them, I go BT, SotD. In high elo games, I'm sure 90% of the time the tanky build will always be the better pick as Shaco just can't fulfill that AD assassin role very well late game. Lately, I've drawn to Khazix more as he feels like the Shaco 2.0 I've always wanted, but it makes me sad to neglect the clown. I think Shaco should be reworked to be able to be built like an assassin instead of the overwhelmingly good early game lane supporter he is now.
Shaco is obviously OP because of those early game ganks, but also because of that first clear. He's still able to get four boxes down before buffs spawn + a 5th during. He saves smite by himself and moves to the 2nd buff(his own or the enemies) and clears it for level 3 20 seconds faster than any other champ can. He can then terrorize the enemy jungler during that time with a level and buff advantage. Let him call his lvl 1 lanemates into his own jungle only to die as well. A great Shaco player won't let up and continue hunting the enemy jungler so they fall behind to the point of it being insurmountable.

He should really have one or the other; amazing ganks or super fast buffs. I think they should both be hurt quite a bit but he should be compensated in his late game assassinating. Here's how I think it should be done.

The backstab passive should be made into more of an active, something that gives 50% increased damage once for the first time he backstabs and then goes on CD for 5-8 seconds. The enemy won't be completely and consistently gimped by trying to retreat from Shaco.

Deceive. Shaco players will probably hate me for this and cling to all the free elo they gained from his ganks but I think the stealth duration should be nerfed. It's currently 3.5 seconds. I think it should be 1.5-2 seconds. The CD should remain at 11 seconds. However, getting a kill or assist should reduce its CD by 2/3/4/5/6 seconds, which is up to half of the normal CD. If the Shaco wants a true reset on this skill, he will need it to be rank 5 and have 40% CDR.

Jack in the Boxes. The health on these should act similarly to Zyra plants. They have the technology now to allow these to not blow up instantly in fights. Doing this will nerf them to take up to 3 hits from jungle mobs but give them more consistency against champions. A good Shaco will still tightly manage the monster aggro to get fast jungle clears but they'll need a bit more durability.

Two Shiv Poison. What I like and I think most Shaco players like about this move is how they can stick to characters with good microing that results in a perma slow on the opponent(with enough points in it). The problem is that this is not very fun for the enemy when they have no escape and are slowed by a perma 30%. During the gank this also greatly helps SHaco's teammate catch up and unleash his power on him. In my opinion Shaco should steal 15% movespeed from the target. Shaco gains 15% while the opponents loses 15%. In this way, Shaco can stick to the target just the same, but the target can still escape back to the turret faster and possibly still evade the lane opponent since he gains no movepeed from the skill. Perhaps activating E still slows them by the full 30% amount however.

Hallucinate. No changes. This skill is great for mitigation,deceivery, turret diving, extra dps, etc.

The result. Shaco's early game is nerfed hard but not incredibly hard. However he now is able to totally BEAST as an assassin during team fights. The combination of increased move speed and a deceive reset CD that meshes with his backstab CD means he has the potential to do some insane AD Burst every few seconds while still managing to escape some sticky situations with Deceive, but not as many as before. This type of high adrenaline, quick-thinking teamfighting is what I long for from assassins and Shaco in general, even if I would have to say good-bye to his overwhelming early game dominance.


I really wanna see a response from morello to this


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Pika Fox

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Super Explosion:
You know, if you replaced the word "Shaco" with "Udyr", it would probably work too.

To do well with Udyr, you probably need to be quite skilled with him.

At which point, why shouldn't you be doing extremely well?


A hard champion to play shouldnt be better by default than any other champ in the game simply because theyre harder to play. Youd just make the pick roster much smaller for higher Elo and make an instaban for them.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Cardboardowl:
you arent making my point any less valid.

A skill being over powered has nothing to do with my skill controlling a champion


No, you just aren't understanding what I'm saying:

If the only people "abusing" Shaco to get to 2k elo are the ones who are extremely skilled at him-- why is it a nerfable issue?

Nerfing the champion at that point simply makes him less fun for everyone else playing him: but not less annoying for those people playing against an extremely skilled Shaco.

It's a wash, and hence reasonably pointless.


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TheDraco4011

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Pika Fox:
Tbh... Shaco can get around a lot of wards without being spotted by any of them unless you place them closer to your lane in the bushes, which will net you less reaction time anyways.


There are many champion in which a revealed Shaco means instant death or easy escape E.G. Diana, Riven, Ryze, Jax


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Pika Fox:
A hard champion to play shouldnt be better by default than any other champ in the game simply because theyre harder to play.


Ask yourself why you would ever pick a harder to play champion competitively if this were true.


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Gorsz

Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Super Explosion:
No, you just aren't understanding what I'm saying:

If the only people "abusing" Shaco to get to 2k elo are the ones who are extremely skilled at him-- why is it a nerfable issue?

Nerfing the champion at that point simply makes him less fun for everyone else playing him: but not less annoying for those people playing against an extremely skilled Shaco.

It's a wash, and hence reasonably pointless.



Morello said that the nerf to shaco's Q will give laners an extra second of reaction time.

That sounds less annoying to me.


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Jordan17x

Member

01-31-2013

shaco is a common ban is high elo, and people dont build him squishy.


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Pika Fox

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Super Explosion:
Ask yourself why you would ever pick a harder to play champion competitively if this were true.


Because each champion fulfills a niche. If it werent true, all you could play in high Elo would be the small number of "high skillcap" champs. It would end up better for them to be UP and unviable in higher Elo than must pick/bans.