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@Hippalus what makes Goth Annie different?

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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

01-31-2013

In the interest of full disclosure I'm going to preface this by mentioning that even at the 975 price point I didn't have an interest in Goth Annie, I don't play Annie so there's no real reason for me to purchase skins for her.

We've seen price reductions and sales previous where a vocal subset demanded refunds and sword rattled in the forums before. With the champion price reductions the saber rattlers were rebuffed and told they'd enjoyed the champ for months no refunds or cancellation would happen. With the legacy skins and the return of snowdown skins the saber rattlers were rebuffed in their efforts for refunds or cancellations.

So given the history of rebuffing those demands the question is begged what exactly makes Goth Annie different? The reaction is identical to what was seen previously that you flat out denied. The arguments are identical to previous instances, having paid a higher price, losing the feeling of exclusivity, etc... So why exactly are you changing your mind for Goth Annie? The only glaring difference between previous instances and Goth Annie is the fact that this announcement came in the middle of the day with the servers down, meaning the largest possible number of people could complain in record time.

Most importantly looking to the future does this mean all we have to do is organize rapidly to make you do literally anything? The reason given for the sale being canceled was the "rapid response." That response however was artificially inflated by the fact that the servers were down in the middle of the day when the announcement was made meaning the maximum possible number of people with nothing better to do but complain were online on the forums when the sale was announced. If we simply organize a fast enough response to whatever idea you next bring us can we make you cancel that too? If not then again it begs the question WHY is Goth Annie special?

For us, the community, from either side of the debate to ever respect or trust another announcement we're going to need a far better explanation for why this sale was special.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

01-31-2013

bump


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Krimson62

Senior Member

01-31-2013

squeaky wheels get the oil... and whiny *****es get attention.

At this point it is Lose-Lose... they might as well make money on it. but then the uproar would begin again


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Perfect Insanity

Senior Member

01-31-2013

The only way to obtain Goth annie, is via Digital Collector's pack bundle in the store. This bundle's cost is 3900 RP. Meaning that your only way of obtaining said skin, is by purchasing the bundle (Which has been proven to have more in it's content for what it is worth). From what I've read the problem is simply how excluse the skin itself is. In all honesty how many times (if any) have you seen Goth annie in any game?

With riot's upcomming visual Upgrade for annie, all of her skins have a new design to them and many look a lot better. Since Goth Annie has never been available in the store as a single purchase Riot announced that they had intentions to release the skin on it's own, allowing players to buy it freely without having to purchase the whole bundle JUST for the skin.

Edit:
Also riot will just lose from the situation both ways. If riot doesn't release the skin, people will whine and complain about how there has never been another way to get the skin and that 3900rp is just an insanely high purchase price for simply 1 skin (since many people that do want the skin apparently own all/most of the champions in the bundle aswell as the runes). If riot does release the skin, those who have bought the bundle will whine and complain that their skin is no longer exclusive, and why is this then not done with older halloween skins such as kitty kat katarina or Bewitched nidalee that are no longer (and probably won't ever) be purchasable.


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Inhibited

Senior Member

01-31-2013

This summoner asks a good question.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
HeckMayster:
The only way to obtain Goth annie, is via Digital Collector's pack bundle in the store. This bundle's cost is 3900 RP. Meaning that your only way of obtaining said skin, is by purchasing the bundle (Which has been proven to have more in it's content for what it is worth). From what I've read the problem is simply how excluse the skin itself is. In all honesty how many times (if any) have you seen Goth annie in any game?

With riot's upcomming visual Upgrade for annie, all of her skins have a new design to them and many look a lot better. Since Goth Annie has never been available in the store as a single purchase Riot announced that they had intentions to release the skin on it's own, allowing players to buy it freely without having to purchase the whole bundle JUST for the skin.

Edit:
Also riot will just lose from the situation both ways. If riot doesn't release the skin, people will whine and complain about how there has never been another way to get the skin and that 3900rp is just an insanely high purchase price for simply 1 skin (since many people that do want the skin apparently own all/most of the champions in the bundle aswell as the runes). If riot does release the skin, those who have bought the bundle will whine and complain that their skin is no longer exclusive, and why is this then not done with older halloween skins such as kitty kat katarina or Bewitched nidalee that are no longer (and probably won't ever) be purchasable.

The net effect however is no different from a price reduction or bringing back the snowdown skins, the arguments boil down to "I paid more" or "people should have had to do what I did to get it." Both of those arguments have previously been thrown out by Hippalus, so why should they work in this instance? That's the question I'm asking here. Why were the people during Snowdown not right if the Goth Annie ones are?

EDIT to include your EDIT:
I actually don't care one way or the other on how this is resolved. I wasn't planning to buy the skin so it not going on sale doesn't affect me in any way. The whole point of this thread was to force Hippalus to take a long hard look at the decision made and hopefully elicit an answer on why exactly it seemed okay this time as opposed to any other. From an outside perspective there's no difference between now and Snowdown so Hippalus explaining what exactly makes it different would go a long way towards better understanding Riot's moves in the future.


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Perfect Insanity

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Cyraknoss:
The net effect however is no different from a price reduction or bringing back the snowdown skins, the arguments boil down to "I paid more" or "people should have had to do what I did to get it." Both of those arguments have previously been thrown out by Hippalus, so why should they work in this instance? That's the question I'm asking here. Why were the people during Snowdown not right if the Goth Annie ones are?

Apparently the backup argument here is the fact is just that, the visual upgrade. There is a difference to offering something for a limited amount of time, then there is to not offering it other than paying a ridiculous amount of money for what you mostly already own.

IMHO it's just people being bored, unable to play because of the server's lag (not sure if it's fixed or not), and just fiding a reason to argue with riot in a harsh attempt to prove them wrong for all their actions.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
HeckMayster:
Apparently the backup argument here is the fact is just that, the visual upgrade. There is a difference to offering something for a limited amount of time, then there is to not offering it other than paying a ridiculous amount of money for what you mostly already own.

IMHO it's just people being bored, unable to play because of the server's lag (not sure if it's fixed or not), and just fiding a reason to argue with riot in a harsh attempt to prove them wrong for all their actions.

Honestly I think this is mostly the truth of it. Hippalus only really cites the speed of downvoting for why the pulled the sale. That speed however was heavily inflated by it being the middle of the day with the servers down. You couldn't actually elicit a larger response without paying for it, so citing the speed that it happened at is definitely the wrong way to go.


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Cytus

Recruiter

01-31-2013

Quote:
Cyraknoss:
Honestly I think this is mostly the truth of it. Hippalus only really cites the speed of downvoting for why the pulled the sale. That speed however was heavily inflated by it being the middle of the day with the servers down. You couldn't actually elicit a larger response without paying for it, so citing the speed that it happened at is definitely the wrong way to go.

It was all downvotes though, the only people who upvoted it were the people who don't want to pay the 3900RP. And on top of that it was hundreds. The skin is exclusive because it's in a bundle, and it will remain that way.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Cytus:
It was all downvotes though, the only people who upvoted it were the people who don't want to pay the 3900RP. And on top of that it was hundreds. The skin is exclusive because it's in a bundle, and it will remain that way.

And? Snow down skin returns elicited hundreds of downvotes, Champion price reductions also elicited hundreds of downvotes. Not to mention when the servers go down the majority of people who immediately take to the forums are here to complain. If the announcement was made with the servers up I can assure you the speed would have been no where near the same. Not to mention it likely would have quickly balanced out to similar numbers as Snowdown and Champion reductions with the upvotes that the speed of Hippalus' takedown didn't allow to happen. The circumstances of this announcement were perfectly inflated to create a situation where it would be downvoted, and then instead of leaving it up and seeing if it would balance out it was taken down forever obliterating the possibility of those here to complain clearing out and the numbers balancing.

I honestly don't care if the skin stays in the bundle, but Hippalus NEEDS to respond on why this event was special. The alternative is that we have to just assume that any announcement made is a couple hours worth of complaints away from disappearing. Uncertainty on our part means less money flowing into Riot and that's just as bad for the community as it is for Riot.