DPS garen vs. tank garen

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BuenaBuena

Member

10-24-2010

You guys are right but you must balance tanky items with DPS ones. Garen with 4 sunfires (i really saw one) looks soo stupid. Getting ONE sunfire, frozen mallet and IE will make you invincible.


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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuenaBuena View Post
You guys are right but you must balance tanky items with DPS ones. Garen with 4 sunfires (i really saw one) looks soo stupid. Getting ONE sunfire, frozen mallet and IE will make you invincible.
Except for the part where you deal less damage and have less survivability than the guy with four sunfires.

No, it doesn't make sense. Yes, it is still true. Check the math on the previous page to see how IE<sunfire on garen.


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Churchy

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10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoiceofTreason View Post
I got to say he is right.

Also if someone did the math I am pretty sure a ghostblade (2272)+another brut (922) would be better for garens judgement (and other CDs too) than an IE (4080). Regardless a ghostblade (2272)+1 sunfire (2510) is better than an IE (4080) too. Not to mention when you talk about actually using each build in gameplay, that 1850 BF if rushed makes your early game so **** slow and somewhat takes away from Garen's best role, early game laning while getting an early avarice and brut after boots 1 is awesome sauce.
Brutalizer is 922? Because unless the combine recipe somehow refunds you gold, that isn't true.

Crit is a pathetic stat on garen, as I have explained multiple times. An early avarice is a waste of gold that just plain can't compare to a HoG or a chainvest for your sunfires.

I won't get into the armor pen on brut/youmuus, because its value is completely dependent on the people you play against. Most of the time however, it's either overkill or underkill. If they don't stack armor, they have none and your runes/masteries take care of it, leading to the ghostblade being ineffective until late game when their natural armor gain kicks in. If they stack armor, the value of armor pen drastically decreases, and then it's still wasted stats.

CD reduction is much more easily obtained from randuin's, and then you have an effect beneficial to the team, instead of a run fast button and a steroid you can't take advantage of.

Garen's early game role is most greatly affected by getting survivability, not damage. His early game damage is so high that you do not need to build damage items to add minimal amounts to his poorly scaling but high base damage abilities. Instead, building survivability so that they can't kill you before you kill them is a much better plan.

Would you rather have a youmuus or a sunfire 13 minutes in? A youmuus gives you an active you can't take advantage of fully, armor pen that's probably overkill, damage that doesn't scale well with his abilities, and crit that doesn't scale for **** with his abilities. Oh, and attack speed (lol). A sunfire gives him more damage more consistently, a roughly 30% boost to his HP at this stage of the game, and makes him take a lot less damage from towers for diving. A sunfire also makes his creep farm a ****-ton easier.


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hooplagoo

Junior Member

03-09-2011

^^ IE is infinity edge, FoN is force of nature


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Beverak

Senior Member

03-09-2011

Foolishness is probably defined somewhere as getting 4 sunfires on garen. Pay for a passive that is unique? just buy a freakin randuin's after the first sunfire since you gain ZERO damage from stacking sunfires on garen. Or anyone except malph actually(or a champ that gains dmg from health).

As for damage, people rag on garen all the time as dps but his E gains 20% extra of his bonus damage and Q gains 50% more. That means a longsword is worth 15 damage for his Q and 12 for his E(x3 since it is applied 3 times for 36 damage at level 1, no other ablity I can think of gains 36 damage at level 1 from any item)

I think ppl underestimate damage on Garen. That being said he's still in a poor spot as his lack of CC and easy kitability make him a weak pick unless you already have a team to shore up those weaknesses.

I personally go long sword -> brut->boots->warmog(with the resists boosts to w you get more out of health)

from there an atmas and a FoN/banshee assuming an even enemy team and I'm tanky but still killable.

if they can't kill me probably finish yomuu's and then work on a atmas mallet combo.

I personally think he's a weak pick in games if your team doesn't have lots of CC or support but he's very fun to play and can be effectively used.

Long sword garen with AD/arpen runes is a beast in lane.


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Something Snazzy

Senior Member

03-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchy View Post
Except for the part where you deal less damage and have less survivability than the guy with four sunfires.

No, it doesn't make sense. Yes, it is still true. Check the math on the previous page to see how IE<sunfire on garen.
Really? Really......?

You keep arguing your math but your mathematical model only shows the added damage for his ult. If you only ever use his ult, then your model works great. And don't give me **** about him not having AD skills. Just because he doesn't have any AS/pen/crit skills, doesn't make his basic attacks worthless. I've gotten plenty of kills using basic attacks as Vlad.

Besides, look at any AD character. Most AD skills scale worse than AP because AD also adds to basic attack. Garen is no different. Of course IE won't make his ult much better.

And besides, his ult sets him up to get some kills. Even **** Garens get some kills, which means even **** garens can afford ghostblade, frozen mallet and some tanky items. Those kills are wasted on stacking sunfires....


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Chillum

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Senior Member

03-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beverak View Post
Foolishness is probably defined somewhere as getting 4 sunfires on garen. Pay for a passive that is unique? just buy a freakin randuin's after the first sunfire since you gain ZERO damage from stacking sunfires on garen. .
This children is why we don't necro threads. Look at the post date thats from when the passive was NOT unique and could be stacked. All everyone ever built on garen at that point was sunfirex4-boots-x


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KamakaziGumiBear

Senior Member

03-10-2011

AD Garen if played right will always face rape, just dont play him like a tank. You dont see master YI run head first into 5 people do you? well maybe that's a bad example master YI can only hurt minions and turrets.


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ForeverLaxx

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Senior Member

03-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillum View Post
This children is why we don't necro threads. Look at the post date thats from when the passive was NOT unique and could be stacked. All everyone ever built on garen at that point was sunfirex4-boots-x
Quoting this for emphasis, in the vain hope that someone will read this post if they skip the quoted post.

NECRO THREAD

Move along; nothing to see here --- people commenting on outdated information.


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Marauder64

Member

03-11-2011

I've also noticed that IE doesn't scale too well with Judgment