Kha and his spikes

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Stray Logos

Senior Member

01-30-2013

So I play the mid lane primarily, and obviously the fotm Kha'Zix players have rolled in (even after his most recent minor nerf), and I have to ask... why is the mana cost on his spike rack not higher?

Most Kha's that I see in mid max this skill first, and they get a tear of the goddess. The moment they get tear + lvl 6 evolution, they spam their spikes without ever going oom. When you consider that both of his other damaging skills have flat mana costs, both of which are 50 or below... why does he get what is essentially free poke (that once evolved is almost impossible to miss) that has such high damage, covers the entire lane, has aoe around the impact, AND heals him for a substantial amount.

Honestly I feel that if Kha chooses to evolve his spike racks first, the evolution should come with a flat 120 mana cost at all ranks. When you take into consideration how spammable this skill is, along with the AoE AND heal, it really does too much for how little mana it costs.

The last set of Kha nerfs confused me honestly, because I never felt his Q was a problem (since you can just be near minions and not take the huge bonus damage), and I was surprised when his W went untouched. Maybe someone can explain how this skill is balanced, especially around the rest of his kit that is borderline manaless. I'm not complaining about his early levels prior to getting a tear, however I feel as if he just has a bit too much all on one skill for such a low mana cost (100 at MAX rank, trivial once he gets tear).

All of this is still not even taking into account his passive which (at lvl 9) does 85 magic damage on top of the damage from his spike. So we have a skill that fires almost the entire width of the lane, and at least half the length, on an 8 second cooldown (base) that does 320 mixed damage per explosion. This is not taking into account the scaling (which by lvl 9 any Kha will have at least a brutalizer). In addition to this ludicous amount of hard to avoid damage, at rank 5 this skill heals for 160, which is ~10% of his HP per use.

From my experience the only effective way to avoid getting hit by every single use of his W is to hide behind minions... fair enough. However his spikes allow him to easily farm minion waves as well. Generally speaking assassins are not good farmers (Talon/Irelia are notable exceptions, but look at how problematic they have been to balance), so why does Kha get such a powerful spell in addition to the rest of his amazing assassin kit?

I'm not calling for Kha to be nerfed into the ground (although I would like to see that just because I'm tired of having to ban or see him in almost every game), but I do feel that he needs his damage/sustain on his W put in line. Without sacrificing the (borderline broken) damage and sustain that this skill gives, I figure a mana cost increase is the safest nerf that would not change the way this champion is played to any great extent. This change would simply force Kha to actually have to think before using his spikes, rather than just spamming them for heal and damage.

TLDR: Kha's W is too powerful for its current mana cost once evolved. I suggest a nerf to the cost so that when it is evolved, it becomes a flat 120 instead of it's usual scaling.


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SeiYouSiLa

Senior Member

01-30-2013

you serious? Kha'Zix's W is too powerful and have a low mana cost???

ok first question
Have you EVER played Kha'Zix yourself AND win?

second question
When facing a Kha'Zix did you even get ONE defense item? (cloth armor)

btw, even with tear of the goddess, this ability is not spammable, and by spammable I mean you can do it over and over again for 30 minutes but no, you can spam this ability about 4 times to poke and you're done, anything more than that will cause you unable to use any other abilities which means you'll become some lame **** champion with only 1 ability to use

Kha'Zix have strength AND weaknesses, saying that his ability is too powerful is like saying Xerath's range is OP, Elise's Kit is broken and Twitch's exponge is too stronk


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

01-30-2013

The only issue I have with Kha'zix spikes is that the range is far to long. Really I mean you buy tear and despite what the post above says you can pretty much spam the ability to both farm and poke. People might say I'm just whining but I play lots of Kha'zix and no telling how many times I'll go from the jungle and just hit W (evolved) from a bush and hit a champ securing an easy kill with no repercussions.

Not only does the damage scale entirely off AD but it out-ranges most AP casters spell range. People always try to argue "It's a skill shot". Yeah it is people until you evolve it and watch as it tears through multiple minions and still continues to travel it's full distance to maul champions. Even if you build armor, since Kha'zix just rushes brutalizer minor armor doesn't help and if you build a major armor item he just completes BC.

The mana cost is ok, it really forces Kha'zix to build tear or go oom quickly but seriously Riot a Bruiser Assassin that can still burst people from melee range a skill that reaches further than most AP casters range and does equal to or more damage for less items is just wrong. He already had a great gap closer with leap his spikes could use a slight range nerf to make him less pub-stomper and perma-ban in ranked.


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SeiYouSiLa

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHatCracker View Post
The only issue I have with Kha'zix spikes is that the range is far to long. Really I mean you buy tear and despite what the post above says you can pretty much spam the ability to both farm and poke. People might say I'm just whining but I play lots of Kha'zix and no telling how many times I'll go from the jungle and just hit W (evolved) from a bush and hit a champ securing an easy kill with no repercussions.

Not only does the damage scale entirely off AD but it out-ranges most AP casters spell range. People always try to argue "It's a skill shot". Yeah it is people until you evolve it and watch as it tears through multiple minions and still continues to travel it's full distance to maul champions. Even if you build armor, since Kha'zix just rushes brutalizer minor armor doesn't help and if you build a major armor item he just completes BC.

The mana cost is ok, it really forces Kha'zix to build tear or go oom quickly but seriously Riot a Bruiser Assassin that can still burst people from melee range a skill that reaches further than most AP casters range and does equal to or more damage for less items is just wrong. He already had a great gap closer with leap his spikes could use a slight range nerf to make him less pub-stomper and perma-ban in ranked.
You're talking about him like he has NO weaknesses at all.
The thing for all champions are if you got strengths you can be dam sure you got weaknesses

Kha'Zix deals alot of damage because he is an assassin, Kha'Zix is squishy, low hp, low defense, also because he is an assassin

besides how can you compare an AD assassin to an AP caster, to my understand AD is different from AP. If you get a Kha'Zix mid lane, there is this thing called the lane switch

you say you played Kha'Zix alot and made yourself sound bias, yet you've NEVER played Kha'Zix in a ranked game in both season 2 and 3

Kha'Zix is perfectly fine especially after the slow nerf and damage nerf on his passive and damage nerf on his Q, so stop whinning and learn to deal with it


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

01-30-2013

So i don't play Kha'zix in ranked so what? I jungle in ranked if you looked at my stats you would know that and I prefer tanky junglers not assassin junglers. I've played nearly 200 games with Kha'zix in normals and majority of the time it's easy wins.

I'm not saying he has no weaknesses. You make it sound like Kha'zix is some squishy 2 hit shaco clone that will be blown to pieces the minute he is seen. The new meta you build tear, BC, warmogs and Kha'zix is an unstoppable machine that can easily survive with a simple gap closer/escape and consistent long range poke as well as invis and assassin level bursting capabilities.

It doesn't matter if AD is difference from AP, you go and try to lane switch it's not hard to follow up with the same tactic on the opposing team and even if you lane swap many tops still get destroyed by kha'zix so he could just stay in lane and make you pay for missing CS and XP.

Kha'zix is not perfectly fine or else he would not be banned permanently in every ranked game I play and ever ranked game I spec or watch the streams for. The nerfs they gave him were minor because he was erupting bruisers from 100-0 in 2 abilities he still needs further scaling back.


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Alvan Yakatori

Senior Member

01-31-2013

The mana cost on his spin rack is pretty high. You just need to make him spam his spike. Also, he is not super strong pre lvl 6 until he evolves his spikes.


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PerfidiousAlbion

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Uhh... his W has mediocre damage, a minor heal that requires you to be in melee range to benefit from, and the mana cost is on par with similar abilities. There is absolutely nothing special about his W until he hits level 6 and upgrades it at the cost of his ganking (E and Q upgrades).

It's funny. When he came out people were complaining his W was too weak.


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SeiYouSiLa

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHatCracker View Post
So i don't play Kha'zix in ranked so what? I jungle in ranked if you looked at my stats you would know that and I prefer tanky junglers not assassin junglers. I've played nearly 200 games with Kha'zix in normals and majority of the time it's easy wins.

I'm not saying he has no weaknesses. You make it sound like Kha'zix is some squishy 2 hit shaco clone that will be blown to pieces the minute he is seen. The new meta you build tear, BC, warmogs and Kha'zix is an unstoppable machine that can easily survive with a simple gap closer/escape and consistent long range poke as well as invis and assassin level bursting capabilities.

It doesn't matter if AD is difference from AP, you go and try to lane switch it's not hard to follow up with the same tactic on the opposing team and even if you lane swap many tops still get destroyed by kha'zix so he could just stay in lane and make you pay for missing CS and XP.

Kha'zix is not perfectly fine or else he would not be banned permanently in every ranked game I play and ever ranked game I spec or watch the streams for. The nerfs they gave him were minor because he was erupting bruisers from 100-0 in 2 abilities he still needs further scaling back.
LOL so you let Kha'Zix get all those items while you have no items at all? You sound like picking Kha'Zix is a guarantee win, every single champion has a counter pick and kha'zix IS so dam squishy just like every other assassin

and if being picked and banned permantly in EVERY ranked game then would Ezreal be OP? would Olaf be OP? Would Shen be OP? Would Blitzcrank be OP? Blitzcrank is mostly banned due to the fact that people don't wanna get grabbed so is this OP? Would Taric be OP for being a common support?

champions are PICKED because people want to play them or maybe because it suits their play style pretty well
champions are BANNED because people DON'T want to play AGAINST them

Your concept - pick/banned = OP needs to be reconsidered


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Stray Logos

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfidiousAlbion View Post
Uhh... his W has mediocre damage, a minor heal that requires you to be in melee range to benefit from, and the mana cost is on par with similar abilities. There is absolutely nothing special about his W until he hits level 6 and upgrades it at the cost of his ganking (E and Q upgrades).

It's funny. When he came out people were complaining his W was too weak.
I already provided numbers on his damage and his heal, without even taking his AD ratio into account it already hits for roughly the same amount or more as squishy AP casters skills, except his spikes have long range, huge aoe, AND the potential to heal him for 10% of his HP per use. Saying that it has mediocre damage and a minor heal is simply false information.

Also Whitehatcracker I agree that his W forces him to buy tear, however the problem is that once he buys it he is free to spam the skill. The mana cost of his W I believe is adjusted to the base skill, not the evolved version. Again the non-evolved variant is not on trial here. A hard to land poke that heals is fine, but when evolved it not only becomes super easy to land AND aoe, but it also applies his passive, which by the time he is level 9 (the right level for his W to be maxed) he is dealing significantly more damage than the skill would have you believe.

I really want someone to explain to me what his weakness is in mid lane. He has sustain, poke, amazing dueling potential, and 2 escape skills. The only champions I can picture actually beating him in lane would be either early game powerhouses like LB, or push heavy champs like Mord (but even then I think the lane would simply stalemate due to Kha's sustain).

Also to those who just say "lololol build armor", brutalizer says hello.


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Stray Logos

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeiYouSiLa View Post
LOL so you let Kha'Zix get all those items while you have no items at all? You sound like picking Kha'Zix is a guarantee win, every single champion has a counter pick and kha'zix IS so dam squishy just like every other assassin

and if being picked and banned permantly in EVERY ranked game then would Ezreal be OP? would Olaf be OP? Would Shen be OP? Would Blitzcrank be OP? Blitzcrank is mostly banned due to the fact that people don't wanna get grabbed so is this OP? Would Taric be OP for being a common support?
Kha is NOT squishy, and even if he was, he has 2 escape abilities, one of which refreshes on kills/assists. Blitzcrank, Olaf, and Ez ARE OP. They are too good at what they do compared to other champions in their class. This combined with their safety (Ez), or broken mechanics (olaf's ult, blitz's entire kit) cause them to enter the pool of highly banned champions.

I do like how I provide numbers showing how his W does far too much for its mana cost, yet people still simply say things like "oh you have never played him" or "he's super squishy so its ok".


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