[Discussion] Annie: I won't use Meija's anymore

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DeanKeaton259

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Senior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ydriel View Post
Before it gave +140 AP after 7 kills, no matter deaths, and 70 of those AP, you got asap. Now it starts at 20 and slowly builds to 160, the mana steal and something else, not sure, plus you lose stacks on death. I feel it has been kind of a nerf.
Older one was much easier to charge. Now it's good if you stomp well and early, but given you're in an even game, it's not nearly as easy. Especially if you consider that being a nuker, you'll be probably squishy as hell and focused at first.
Been trying Ryze lately (haven't checked Annie yet, but that's not the point) and now I'm really not sure how to get a decent AP increase. Kassadin, Annie, Veigar, the few times I played Ryze, I'd usually get a Mejai. I guess I'll have to try the new one and see how it goes.
I think they need to change it to give .5 ap per minion kill as well because as it is now, It's pretty useless. If you get a lot of charges, the other team can just focus you and beat your ass. Champion kills are not the easiest thing to come by.


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Unbreakable

Junior Member

12-02-2009

This was a pretty significant nerf for softer AP champions. Before, you usually rushed Mejai's as a first damage item at the cost of survivability. Now, it not only provides a much lower initial AP gain, but it also penalizes you for not hitting hp early, due to snowballing.

Even if Mejai's overall cost is cheaper, I could better use the 1000 gold to obtain a static 40 AP immediately to help my team in skirmishes. This could be solved by increasing Mejai's base AP from 20 to ~60 and decreasing the number of max stacks.


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DeanKeaton259

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Senior Member

12-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Of Emperium View Post
This was a pretty significant nerf for softer AP champions. Before, you usually rushed Mejai's as a first damage item at the cost of survivability. Now, it not only provides a much lower initial AP gain, but it also penalizes you for not hitting hp early, due to snowballing.

Even if Mejai's overall cost is cheaper, I could better use the 1000 gold to obtain a static 40 AP immediately to help my team in skirmishes. This could be solved by increasing Mejai's base AP from 20 to ~60 and decreasing the number of max stacks.
That sounds like a good idea, but I still think that giving .5 ap per minion kill would be good too. I think that would help balance out the huge loss of ap due to dying.


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Unbreakable

Junior Member

12-03-2009

I suppose AP gain per minion kill would be interesting, but I like how both the current and old Mejai encourage early ganking, instead of just farming.

Compared to the old Mejai, the new version places most AP champions at a clear disadvantage - it loses the mana gain on champion kills, and trades 50 initial AP and safe AP gain for lower cost and the 40 more AP/snowball bonus at max stacks.

I know that proponents of the new Mejai have mentioned that the old Mejai was intended to snowball like the new one, but didn't achieve its purpose. If that's the case, then it seems like lightning struck AP champions twice, as some of them also had their skill AP ratios reduced, among other things.


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Knives

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Member

12-03-2009

Deathfire Grasp instead of Mejai's now.

Open with the Grasp to make the most of it and then burst them down with your other 3 nukes


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GNOY

Senior Member

12-03-2009

It still charges from assists too, if i'm not mistaken.


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Unbreakable

Junior Member

12-03-2009

Deathfire Grasp costs significantly more, and isn't as useful in the early stages of the game.

The old Mejai's rewarded team fights, but the new version punishes you for taking one for the benefit of your team, and instead encourages overly safe play. I think others have made a pretty good point in various threads about the new Mejai's, that it's only useful if you're already dominating your opponents. Was that its only intended purpose, or were snowball items supposed to encourage a more realistic risk calculation (i.e. buying the item even if you're unsure that you'll own your opponents, but only suffering a reasonable penalty if you aren't dominating).


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LackofCertainty

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12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaodynamics View Post
well lets see

old soul stealer 160 + 70 = 230 no loss. mana on kill.
new soul stealer 180 + 20 = 200 with loss. no mana on kill unless full stacked (20 stacks).

Lets see you die. 2/3rds gone right so your looking at 50 ap. You will eventually get max stacks again, but the new soul stealer requires you to be winning. Which is like saying "if your rofl stomping their team lolz your rofl stomping their team". Works both ways around, makes it harder for the loser to mount a come back and allows the winner to constantly be on top. Overall meh, never will like this style of balancing. Hope they stop sniffing coke and change it.
The other guy already said it, but you're way off on the stats. Don't make a post complaining about stats if you don't have the intelligence to go get the proper ones for yourself.

Old mejais: 70 base ap + 70 through charging (7kills/14assists) = 140 ap. Added perk is a kill gets you all of your opponent's mana.

Total price: 435 amp. tome + 860 blasting wand + 550 combine = 1845g

New Mejais: 20 base ap + 160 through charging (10kills/20assists) = 180ap. Lose 1/3 of charges on death. Added perk, when fully charged 10% cd reduction + gain 200 health and mana on kill or assist.

Total price: 435 amp. tome + 1000g combine = 1435g


Early Game: New Mejai's is cheaper, but it's lower starting ap means that it won't make near the difference the old one did. 1 grand dumped into upgrading the thing is rough considering that you could instead grab a blasting wand for less than that, and start assembling one of the other ap items.

Mid Game: If you're being fed, your Mejai's will help you dominate, but if you're being fed that hard, you would be dominating with any decent ap items. If you're playing an average game you'll have a few charges on the thing by now, but it's ap will still be nowhere near what the old version's was. Also, you might be hurting on mana, since the new mejai's doesn't have any drain potential until maxed.... but, let's be honest, you're using mejai's for the ap, not for the little extra mana here and there.

Late Game: If your team is extremely co-ordinated, you might keep your soulstealer maxed, and the extra ap and cd reduction will be great. If your team isn't well co-ordinated (aka you're playing a pub) you'll likely be dieing often enough to keep new mejai's firmly below the old version in terms of ap.


Basically the new mejai's seems like an item that's designed to make a team that's already winning win harder. If you're kicking ass early, it might be worth getting to speed the process along, but otherwise I'd steer clear.


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Rimxo

Junior Member

12-03-2009

My last Build was:

1-Rejuvenation Bead + Faerie Charm
2-Haunting Guise + Boot of Speed
3-Catalyst the Protector
4-Sorcerer's Boots
5-Void Staff
6-Abyssal Scepter
7-Banshee's Veil
8-Zhonya's Ring

A good AP build + some magic resist to still alive in team battle.


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kaodynamics

Senior Member

12-03-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by LackofCertainty View Post
The other guy already said it, but you're way off on the stats. Don't make a post complaining about stats if you don't have the intelligence to go get the proper ones for yourself.

Old mejais: 70 base ap + 70 through charging (7kills/14assists) = 140 ap. Added perk is a kill gets you all of your opponent's mana.

Total price: 435 amp. tome + 860 blasting wand + 550 combine = 1845g

New Mejais: 20 base ap + 160 through charging (10kills/20assists) = 180ap. Lose 1/3 of charges on death. Added perk, when fully charged 10% cd reduction + gain 200 health and mana on kill or assist.

Total price: 435 amp. tome + 1000g combine = 1435g


Early Game: New Mejai's is cheaper, but it's lower starting ap means that it won't make near the difference the old one did. 1 grand dumped into upgrading the thing is rough considering that you could instead grab a blasting wand for less than that, and start assembling one of the other ap items.

Mid Game: If you're being fed, your Mejai's will help you dominate, but if you're being fed that hard, you would be dominating with any decent ap items. If you're playing an average game you'll have a few charges on the thing by now, but it's ap will still be nowhere near what the old version's was. Also, you might be hurting on mana, since the new mejai's doesn't have any drain potential until maxed.... but, let's be honest, you're using mejai's for the ap, not for the little extra mana here and there.

Late Game: If your team is extremely co-ordinated, you might keep your soulstealer maxed, and the extra ap and cd reduction will be great. If your team isn't well co-ordinated (aka you're playing a pub) you'll likely be dieing often enough to keep new mejai's firmly below the old version in terms of ap.


Basically the new mejai's seems like an item that's designed to make a team that's already winning win harder. If you're kicking *** early, it might be worth getting to speed the process along, but otherwise I'd steer clear.
Hey I corrected myself (well tried), besides haven't played the game in a week since my laptop fried. Anywho like we both said the new mejai is barely worth it, for example losing your stacks (which in a real game happens often) keeps you gimped making almost any AP item more effective. Actually its an extremely ****ty caster version of BloodThirsters...As I like to say "devs stop sniffing coke from noes on this one.