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Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

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Dr Snapped

Senior Member

04-18-2013

Quote:
SmashGizmo:
If there's specific stuff you guys want me to talk about in here, I'm happy to keep going, I just felt like I was working on that WoT for an hour and had totally lost my train of thought so I stopped .

Otherwise, I'm kicking my blog back off this monday so you can always follow me there to catch when I ramble about gaming stuff: http://mogwaismusings.com/

/shamelessplug


I have a question not at all related to competitiveness or balance.

Something that always, always bugged me about Brawl (aside from the tripping, which you've basically noted no sane person honestly supports), was the fact Mewtwo wasn't a playable character, despite being the only one of the Melee characters that was not based on another (a "clone," if you will). Did your discovery of this fact affect you in any way? It soured me quite a bit, given he was seemingly replaced by pet character Lucario - who I am not afraid to say I positively LOATHE - only for it to be worsened later by the revelation there's unused (and unusable) data for Mewtwo as a character.


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Steveopotamus

Member

04-18-2013

Quote:
TheFairOne:
Riot is slowly turning into those kind of companies. Give it by the end of this year.

Blizzard is just a big mess.


It certainly feels that way.


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Betwïxt

Senior Member

04-18-2013

Quote:
Morello:
Perhaps - but I think DotA's design direction is valid, it's just not ours. I think the difference in how skill is applied and what skills players actually value is the difference between traditional MOBA and League. Obviously, I prefer our design values (that's self-selection though) because I think the tradeoffs are worth it. I think not having Tiny toss target your allies is worth the gains we get from it - lower trolling potential, lower possibility for a well-meaning ally to actually directly **** you, etc

Maybe most gamers do prefer the design direction of "anything goes" - I just think it's something that is far less appealing not only to the majority of players, but to even most core, hardcore gamers. Simply put, the thought is that the skills we try to bring to the surface create better overall gameplay experiences that center on skills and mastery that gamers (and spectators!) actually value. A lot of the reasons I think fighting games will always be a myopic niche are the same reasons I think League is the stronger design methodology for players overall. Frankly, I think until your 200th game of DotA, getting killed doesn't just feel bad, it feels like bull**** because the counterplay is much more obtuse. When we have issues with this (Darius...) our players hate it too.

I think there were places, in the past, we'd tried to go to far - when we had the patch with ward-jumping removed, etc. I think we're better about balancing "cool factor" and potential abuse cases/balance issues than in the past. I think we can both agree that the right balance of that is important, even if we disagree on what that balance looks like.


this is really pathetic morello

no one in dota trolls. Valve trusts their community to do good with the tools given to them

Even the lowest level games, NO ONE trolls mechanically. Your excuse for disallowing such interactions is league is purely based off Ego and Arrogance in what you perceive to be as superior game design


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Mooninites

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Morello:
I'm saying I don't think raids should be inclusive, as the exclusivity of content creates a psychological trick in your brain that makes the game feel endless. Basically, my direction would be (and maybe incorrectly - I haven't tried!) that all content is not for everyone. If anything, League proves core gaming has a big audience, and you don't have to make things easy.


Wrath of the Lich King was the most successful expansion in WoW history. It peaked at 12.3 million subscribers, it also had a fair amount of accessibility, significantly more than The Burning Crusade. You cannot argue with results and most people look at Burning Crusade as one of the best expansions but thats because they look with 'rose tinted glasses'. They don't take into account the massive rep grinds, the inaccessibility of content in general (not just raids), and absolutely terrible class balance. Class balance is in a way, indirectly linked to accessibility. I played a Shadow Priest when they had awful numbers, you were pretty much just there to be a mana battery and thats it. If a group already had a Shadow priest that was decent, I couldn't get in the raid or guild because why would they want a class with terrible dps. The point I'm getting at, was this directly affected accessibility for not just me but all shadow priests.

The same is true for League of Legends. Not everything has to be easy, but things should be accessible. Champions, specifically should be accessible, yet there are some that remain largely inaccessible. The fact is, it's incredibly difficult to succeed with champions like Ziggs or Wukong or Viktor at a high level because these champions are just lacking. I have a buddy who is a pretty good wukong player, now granted wukong isn't absolutely awful, but he's certainly good, not a strong pick for any role currently. He has spent a lot of time mastering wukong, but because wukong is fairly weak, his accessibility to success with wukong is diminished than say if he had spent as much time mastering a champion like Elise. I know it's not a perfect comparison, but the point is still fairly true. Game balance should be the primary focus. And your comments are very concerning because it shows the utmost contempt for game balance. The Burning Crusade was arguably one of the worst expansions as far as balance, perhaps even worse than Classic (coming from someone who has played since the first month of WoW). It also had extremely limited gameplay (not just raiding as I said), yet you seem to think that it hit the spot. Will you refute what you said? Because quite frankly your idea of a 'sweet spot' probably would have killed the game if it had continued in the direction it had.

The idea of an MMO style game is just that, a massive multiplayer online which allows for accessibility to magnitudes of content many games cannot provide. Yet you seem to despise the idea of accessibility, which makes me wonder why you're even in the MMO business


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JabuZ

Junior Member

06-25-2013

The Elder Scrolls Online
I know it has not come out yet, but does it really have to be for ps4 and xbox one users?


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Uccisore

Senior Member

06-25-2013

Um, there's no "We know what you want" 'mode of thinking' that game developers have. They MUST take that attitude in order to ****ing make a video game. A person who doesn't think he can figure out what gamers want isn't going to make a game, he's going to ***** on the forums of the games other people made.


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Izael Archi Magu

Senior Member

06-25-2013

diablo 3 is a perfect example of ruining what could have potentially been the greatest game of all time


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Cleats

Senior Member

06-25-2013

Team Fortress 2 was a massive hit when it came out. I loved it. With the introduction of the Mann Co. Store and the Free-To-Play it takes alot of the fun out of it. People no longer get the thrill of getting an item or hat drop since they can just buy it from the in-game store.

Now, Valve allow people to pitch their own content that could make its way into the game. I feel there are way too many items and hats now for anything to be considered exclusive or something to gloat about if you have it. Everyone is crazy about Unusuals and stranges and blahblahblah.

I remember when I had a Troublemaker's Tossle, Ze Goggles, and a Medic Mask and everyone would be jelly of me. Now I'm nothing.