Will you be buying the new Crystalline Flask?

Yes, I'll start with it for any champ with mana in any lane. 8 9.30%
Yes, I'll start with it but only for certain lanes and champs. 40 46.51%
No, I think it is almost always better to start with something else. 21 24.42%
I'm not sure yet. 17 19.77%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

New Crystalline Flask still worth it

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Juicy Juuce

Member

01-20-2013

TLDR: You get four less potions before your first recall but you get the equivalent of one extra potion every recall thereafter. Even though it is a nerf, the new crystalline flask is still well worth it.

<lets run some numbers>

The old flask cost 225g and gave you 100 health and 40 mana, 3 times per recall. That's 300 health and 120 mana. To get that in health and mana potions it would be 2 health potions and 1.2 mana potions.

2 x 35g + 1.2 x 35g = 112g

That's almost exactly half of 225g so it would pay for itself after your first recall.

The new flask costs 345g and gives you 120 health and 60 mana, 3 times per recall. That's 360 health and 180 mana. To get that in health and mana potions it would be 2.4 health potions and 1.8 mana potions.

2.4 x 35g + 1.8 x 35g = 147g

That is 0.43 of 345 so it will take you 2.3 fills, or one recall and one-third of another recall (I know, I know).

That extra one-third of a recall is how much longer it will take to break even on your costs. But for the rest of the game you will have a more useful flask. The difference between 2 and 2.3 is small so the real downside to the new flask is before your first recall.

The new flask gives you 60 extra health and 60 extra mana per refill. With the old flask you could buy it as well as 7 potions. With the new one you can only buy 3 other potions. If those extra 4 potions were 2 health and 2 mana then you would end up with this before your first recall:

2 x 150 - 60 = 240 extra health

and

2 x 100 - 60 = 140 extra mana

</running numbers>

Now there is no arguing that before your first recall is the most sensitive part of the early game. An early lead or lag can make all the difference. That's the downside. The upside is that you get an extra 60 health and 60 mana per recall for as long as you keep the flask which is usually until late game. That is 0.4 of a health potion and 0.6 of a mana potion. In other words, it is like one extra free potion every time you recall when compared to the old flask. With the old flask it was as if you got three potions every recall, with the new one you get four.

Another small upside is if you drink all three charges on the fountain, it will last 36 seconds instead of 30 seconds, giving you a little more free regeneration when you get back to lane.


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3mptylord

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I think the change was specifically targeted at making it a less viable purchase at level 1. They obviously weren't trying to make the item entirely unviable.


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Tasae

Junior Member

01-20-2013

I dont know
kinda rather start with:
-Faerie Charm pots and ward/s
-Rejuvenation Bead pots and ward/s
-Cloth Armor pots and ward
-boots and pots as S2
depending on the match up
than the New Crystalline Flask too expensive too risky as starting item w/o wards


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FailBomber

Junior Member

01-20-2013

225-> 345 is too much taking pots instead of flask is much viable and efficient now...


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FreeGothitelle

Senior Member

01-20-2013

While it's technically cost efficient after a few recalls, generally you wouldn't be buying pots at that stage, and health and mana regen is much more usefup early than 10 or so minutes in.

Why would I start with flask when I could start with 8 health pots, 3 mana and a ward basically. That's all the health regen I'll need, mana isn't really an issue after that, and i have the safey of a ward I wouldn't get with a flask start (or i could get it, but then my opponent with his pots start will easily outsustain me when it counts)
Tbh cloth + 5, boots + 3, pots and ward, or even dorans in some cases is more effective than a flask start.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-22-2013

If they cut it by just 20g it would fit into starting builds again and be viable at level 1.Needing to b for it just makes it feel really bad, and poses certain major disadvantages...


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

01-22-2013

It's only good now on Dominion. No longer worth it on SR unless you're loosing and having to go to base alot.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
It's only good now on Dominion. No longer worth it on SR unless you're loosing and having to go to base alot.
It's too expensive on Dominion too. boots + tear = 20 gold short of flask. Boots + cloth + mantle/longsword/dagger = 20 gold short of a flask. I LOVE having it, but if I am bot lane, I have to B now after capping to grab it, which can be a very bad thing depending on what the enemy bot does.


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finallylupus

Member

01-22-2013

Cloth + Pots is what I have been using as my opener since the new flask. Before, I could get away with going for the flask and a cheap mana regen item (lead-up to tear), but it doesn't really make sense now.

But I agree that the flask is only useful if you're going to base a lot. In which case I would get flask and a boots with homeguard enchantment.


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TheOneMillion

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicy Juuce View Post
Another small upside is if you drink all three charges on the fountain, it will last 36 seconds instead of 30 seconds, giving you a little more free regeneration when you get back to lane.
They actually removed this -_-