Veigar's E is better than Jarvan's R

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Cool Stuffz

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Title.


I know I may get downvoted hard for this, but just hear me out for a moment.

Veigar's E and Jarvan's R both essentially serve the same purpose: keep enemies in and away from the rest of your team. However, I would like to make the argument that in this functionality, Veigar's E is better, FAR better.


Cataclysm:
Can be cast from 650 Range and brings Jarvan down on the target dealing 150% Bonus AD and trapping himself and any other champions inside. Wall has a diamer of 650 and lasts for 3.5 seconds or until Jarvan cancels the ability. Cooldowns: 120, 105, 90.

Cataclysm in its tooltip says it creates "impassable terrain." However, I'm sure most of you agree that this is hardly true. Champions can dash, blink, glitch, whatever, through the walls. I've seen Riven Q through Jarvan's wall, I've seen Vayne tumble through Jarvan's wall. I've heard of Hecarim and people using Ghost simply walking through Jarvan's wall. Not to mention the whole "I can trap my allies" problem. He's helping.


Event Horizon:
Creates a ring that stuns targets who attempt to walk through the walls. Can be cast from 600 range, has a diameter of 450 and only affects enemy champions. Only stuns, has no AP ratio or base damage. Cooldowns: 20, 19, 18, 17, 16.

Though I'm sure there have been glitches with it in the past, to my knowledge, as of right now the only way to get through Veigar's wall unhindered is a blink/ignoring CC (Flash/Black Shield, etc...). Graves can't dash through the wall and avoid being stunned. Tristana can't jump over it. And perhaps the biggest thing that I think makes it better, it doesn't trap allies. If your teammate is trying to make an escape, you can lay Event Horizon down on top of their head and need not worry that you're condemning them to a tragic death.

The stun IS affected by tenacity of course, but I'd rather have a mitigated stun on the entire enemy team than see them simply walk out like nothing happened.

"But it does no damage!" you say.

And then I reply, "Veigar has an AoE 1:1 AP scaling nuke that is practically guaranteed to hit." Damage is unnecessary because the enemy team is getting ****ed anyway. It also doesn't put Veigar at risk. He can safely lay it down from range and spam /l as he decommissions at least half of the enemy team for a full 3 seconds, which could be all the time you need to win a teamfight.

You can also use to disengage very easily. You CAN do that with Cataclysm, but it's much harder and less reliable.



tl;dr: Veigar's NORMAL skill Event Horizon locks people down better than Jarvan's ULTIMATE Cataclysm. This needs fixing.

Edit: For people who are confident Jarvan is fine as a whole: I'm not saying Jarvan is a bad champion or "unviable," but his R has unnecessary problems that should have been fixed a while ago.



Discuss.


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Snoozealot

Senior Member

01-17-2013

It's fine the way it is. Compare full kits not single abilities.


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Renegen

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Jarvan's R is a gap closer and he can then hit you with his spear and W, slowing you. Veigar is a squishy mage with no auto attacks that relies on a combo. Functionally, the abilities are used differently.


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ebood

Member

01-17-2013

removed post my bad


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Montaque1

Senior Member

01-17-2013

This is a silly thread.


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Cool Stuffz

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozealot View Post
It's fine the way it is. Compare full kits not single abilities.
You're actually trying to say Jarvan's R is perfectly fine in it's current state, given the plethora of problems plaguing it?

Please give me a real reason why Jarvan's R is better.


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Cool Stuffz

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebood View Post
you forgot to mention that veigar's E doesn't lock his teammates but only enemies
meanwhile jarvan locks both...
Oh I did. Go back and check.


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Cool Stuffz

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegen View Post
Jarvan's R is a gap closer and he can then hit you with his spear and W, slowing you. Veigar is a squishy mage with no auto attacks that relies on a combo. Functionally, the abilities are used differently.
Used differently, but ultimately serving nearly-identical functions.


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AHeroNamedHawke1

Member

01-17-2013

But J4 screams Demacia so its better


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Insípid

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Why does Riot pretend J4s ult is okay? When someone can just fk it baylife and walk out of it...there's an issue. Even more so that the bug's been going ignored for as long as I've been playing....1 year. It really that hard to fix a bug? Given the fact you've had more major ones fixed in reasonable time frames.


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