Which champions should get minor tweaks for Dominion?

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MajorUrsa

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
Name me a single champion that needs a passive 200% mana regen bonus to be viable.
I personally play a lot of Brand and his early game mana costs are debilitating to say the least. Even with an early game chalice, a map where frequent and often fragrant use of a champions abilities is required necessitates the aura for allowing you to get through the early game designed around SR's laning phase.

You're taking a multitude of champions designed around the 20 minute laning phase and throwing them directly into the team fight phase while expecting them to engage more and for longer periods then in SR.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Can we keep the inanity of the mana regen argument in the corner of its own horrible little thread please?


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorUrsa View Post
You're taking a multitude of champions designed around the 20 minute laning phase and throwing them directly into the team fight phase while expecting them to engage more and for longer periods then in SR.
And in SR how do those champions regain mana? They stop fighting. Do they have inf mana in combat or do they run out if they do not use it wisely forcing them to have to wait and regain mana (and in some cases, port back for it)?

No-one in Dominion needs a 200% bonus mana regen aura and no-one should be rewarded for squandering their mana, it encourages abuse so guess what? It is being abused. The problem is that the abuse of the aura has become "the norm" meaning now it is alot harder to campaign to get this cancer removed. Champions are balanced around having a finite amount of mana to spend in combat which is why Kassadin is broken with the aura as he never runs out and manaless champions are inferior because they are balanced around being able to use their spells more in combat but in dominion this is currently not the case.


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MajorUrsa

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
And in SR how do those champions regain mana? They stop fighting. Do they have inf mana in combat or do they run out if they do not use it wisely forcing them to have to wait and regain mana (and in some cases, port back for it)?

No-one in Dominion needs a 200% bonus mana and no-one should be rewarded for squandering their mana, it encourages abuse so guess what? It is being abused. The problem is that the abuse of the aura has become "the norm" meaning now it is alot harder to campaign to get this cancer removed. Champions are balanced around having a finite amount of mana to spend in combat which is why Kassadin is broken with the aura as he never runs out and manaless champions are inferior because they are balanced around being able to use their spells more in combat but in dominion this is currently not the case.
This isn't SR. You stop fighting and you lose a cap. You give up the advantage. APs are doing much better then they were previously, part of that is the re itemizing of Dominions AP items, and part of that is that they are able to compete by having access to their spells when and how often they need them.

Dominion asks more of your basic SR champion. There are only a handful of champions that truly abuse the aura, while theyre are many that directly benefit from its application. Who would directly benefit from the auras removal? I can tell you right now it wouldnt hit Kass that hard, but lower tier mages would be griping. Bruisers wouldnt see it hit them too bad, many already build Glacial Shroud into FH, and have relatively cheap mana costs compared to APs.

You have to really assess what the goal of this change would be, and how it would affect the game. Removing the aura to balance Kassadin is a poor choice, simply because so many other champions are very balanced around it, and it works in the context of the often extended and micro heavy back and forth engagements that can be so taxing on AP champions with high mana costs. Mana-tank kass would hardly be affected by this change, it could perhaps slow his mid game transition, but the effects to Kassadin in comparison to the rest of the roster who are in a great place, with the aura, are marginal and make this idea a poor one in execution.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Why not just make the aura a flat 100% then? As the aura currently stands it's a better Chalice.


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ricedream5

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
Name me a single champion that needs a passive 200% mana regen bonus to be viable.
Mpen-Ap-Kog'maw. qq.


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Dreampod

Senior Member

01-16-2013

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Originally Posted by Stexe View Post
As others have said, Champions that rely on minions and/or farming tend to lose some of their power. It would have to be taken on a case by case basis as some Champions who make use of minions (like Jax) probably wouldn't need a change since they are very strong already.

Here's a small list:
- Nasus & Veigar (Q farms from minions)
- Twisted Fate & Ashe & Gangplank (bonus gold from minions)
- Cho'Gath & Trundle & Swain (passive activating from minions)
- Jax & Amumu & Poppy (skill procs from minion attacks)
- Annie & Kennen & Poppy (building charges on attacking minions)
- Sion (building life from minions)
- Shyvana & Renekton & Tryndamere & Rengar (fury / resources from minions) [Probably not needed since relics give fury now]
- Mordekaiser (building shield from minions)
- Syndra (grabbing minions)
- Tristana (explosions from killing minions)

Probably a few others I missed. The only idea I could easily come up to cover all of them is maybe treat the bigger minions as more than a single one for purposes of gaining things. Like TF's +2 Gold would be +10 on it or something. Could also apply that to normal minions being worth 2 or 3 or a variable amount depending on each Champion. Wouldn't lead to a huge burden of knowledge since you'd just know "killing minion with X skill is going to give me a reward" -- as for how much that reward is the player doesn't need to directly know for their calculations on using the ability.
That is a really good solution for most of the differences. While it wouldn't solve them it would give a good solid focus for champions that build on minion kills to have gameplay around.


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P1aNo

Junior Member

01-16-2013

my acccount can not login this game i dont know why?
always see " please reconnect this game" but i didnt join anygame!


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Phourc

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorUrsa View Post
blah
Stops feeds trolls please, Void's a troll and will troll you along for pages - just downvote and move on.


As for champs that may need specific Dom-tweaks?

I believe Thresh already has boosted soul drops and while maybe veigar needs some help (but let's be honest, he needs some SR help as well), champions like Cho'gath and Morde maybe aren't at full strength but aren't exactly bad.

Is it really that big a deal if certain champions are better on certain maps? (Besides obvious abuse case Kassadin lol)


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Dreampod

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorUrsa View Post
Great idea. You'd be safely cutting the roster of viable champions in half by removing the aura that's making them remotely viable, just to stop the single most op champion on the map from abusing his ultimate, completely ignoring the rest of his kit and ultimately doing nothing about his mobility. He'd just have to manage it here and there.

Give this man a designer of the year award.
Really, a better solution to the mana issue is to increase the amount the aura causes you to regenerate but set it to 'out of combat' only. That neuters Kass by forcing him to stop teleporting around to get that regen, gives manaless champions a solid role during sieges (keep enemies in combat with harass so you can exhaust their mana while you team recouperates theirs), and means buying a mana item isn't a waste because it increases the length you can do a single engagement. I think this style of change would create better gameplay by giving solid reasons for engage/disengage rather than the smash your face towards the enemy until one side dies play that is often seen.