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Thresh Quality-of-Life Feedback

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Taikero

Senior Member

01-14-2013

I played Thresh earlier today and here are some of my thoughts from the experience:

Passive: Both powerful yet one of Thresh's great weaknesses, Thresh's souls provide unique gameplay and counterplay. If Thresh's laning opponent(s) keeps Thresh from picking up souls, Thresh will fall behind and could have a difficult time coming back. However, leaving Thresh alone to farm souls is dangerous too, allowing him to grow in power and durability.

My primary feedback on Thresh's passive is:

  1. It would be nice if souls lasted a bit longer, as picking them up can be problematic if engaged with an enemy champion when one drops.
  2. It would be nice if the pickup range for souls was slightly larger. Thresh's attack range is already very small, and it is difficult for Thresh to pick up souls against a competent laning opponent who will easily harass Thresh if he tries to get close enough to pick up a soul.

Q: Thresh's Q has a great passive, however its active ability has some glaring weaknesses that work against his kit.
  1. Thresh's Q does not pull an enemy close enough when landed at maximum range to land in his R or close enough to land an E. While it is true that Thresh can pull himself to his Q'd target, why should he have to unless the purpose of this ability is to create risk for Thresh should he desire a kill?
  2. Thresh's Q has a long windup time which makes it a very difficult skillshot to land. It is quite easy to dodge and if missed, the rest of Thresh's kit isn't helpful in initiating or catching up with a fleeing opponent. If you miss Thresh's Q, you feel pretty darn useless as far as engaging is concerned.
  3. Thresh's Q hits minions and monsters and it is extremely frustrating for such a difficult skillshot to hit a minion and pull them toward you when the ability is clearly designed to affect enemy Champions. This ability would feel much better and the difficulty of landing the skillshot would be better rewarded by landing only on enemy Champions.

W: This skill feels great so far. I don't feel like it needs to be changed. If anything were to change, I'd slightly increase the radius of the shield activation to better cover Thresh and his team, but that's it. Overall a very nice ability.

E: Thresh's E has a rather short range, and that is my main gripe with it. I feel like I almost have to be on top of my opponent for it to work, and it would be nice if it had a longer effective range given its strange aiming mechanic.

R: Thresh's R is nice, however due to the short range of E and the unreliability of his Q, it feels lackluster as a result. There are times when landing a Q will not fully pull an enemy into an activated R wall, which feels bad (Yes, I realize Thresh can pull himself and then R, but that should not be required for such a difficult ability to land). E's short range makes it feel nice only if an enemy is inside the R when activated, as opposed to outside (it's not very feasible to pull an enemy back into the R due to E's short range).


TLDR version: Thresh's passive hurts his laning potential due to souls lasting a short time compared to the short pickup range, allowing for a lot of harassment if Thresh actually wants to pick the souls up, making Support and Jungle more viable than Top as a result. Thresh's Q is easily dodged, doesn't mesh incredibly well with his kit, and should not land on minions due to how incredibly hard it is to land on a Champion. Thresh's E has a short range that could stand to be increased, and Thresh's R is only as good as the ability of the Thresh player to utilize the rest of his somewhat dysfunctional kit.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Good feedback overall, but I'd rather you didn't stop Q from hitting minions. I love the ability to jump to neutral minion camps in the jungle for escapes and fast movement. Especially considering how big the range is. If you want to make it easier to land then shorten the wind up, but otherwise I'm OK with it as is. It may be hard to land but it has lots of utility to compensate.


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Taikero

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Krueger 404:
Good feedback overall, but I'd rather you didn't stop Q from hitting minions. I love the ability to jump to neutral minion camps in the jungle for escapes and fast movement. Especially considering how big the range is. If you want to make it easier to land then shorten the wind up, but otherwise I'm OK with it as is. It may be hard to land but it has lots of utility to compensate.


You're right, there is some utility there in the sense of Jungle maneuvering, I guess I just think those situations are more rare than being around minions you don't want to hit with the linchpin of your kit. Perhaps shortening the windup would be enough to help alleviate some of these minion problems (At least twice I had a minion walk in front of an enemy Champion I was trying to catch), I just know that his Q is extremely important to land for him to be effective against enemy Champions.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

01-14-2013

Great feedback! These are all intended weaknesses.

Giving power is not quality of life. Quality of life is "It is easy to forget that Frost Shot is on so I sometimes burn a ton of mana on creeps". Power is "I want my spells to have longer ranges/to not require me to be in danger to use them/to have shorter cast times/to all auto-combo/etc."


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Komeiji Koishi

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Taikero:
[*]Thresh's Q has a long windup time which makes it a very difficult skillshot to land. It is quite easy to dodge and if missed, the rest of Thresh's kit isn't helpful in initiating or catching up with a fleeing opponent. If you miss Thresh's Q, you feel pretty darn useless as far as engaging is concerned.[*]Thresh's Q hits minions and monsters and it is extremely frustrating for such a difficult skillshot to hit a minion and pull them toward you when the ability is clearly designed to affect enemy Champions. This ability would feel much better and the difficulty of landing the skillshot would be better rewarded by landing only on enemy Champions.


Funny thing is that Blitzcrank feels the same way.


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Bloodknife

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Idk how i feel about thresh's Q windup time... I agree it should have one.. but I feel like it's going to be harder than it should be to hit someone at max range,


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ExaltedVanguard

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Great feedback! These are all intended weaknesses.

Giving power is not quality of life. Quality of life is "It is easy to forget that Frost Shot is on so I sometimes burn a ton of mana on creeps". Power is "I want my spells to have longer ranges/to not require me to be in danger to use them/to have shorter cast times/to all auto-combo/etc."

So which category does this fall into?

"Shyvana's E make her stop moving, which makes it awkward to use when gap-closing, but using it after you've reached your target and started unloading means your passive go to waste."

Feels incredibly awkward, clunky, and is not friendly to players new to her (QoL), but also has a direct impact on her damage output (Power).

Now that moving while using skills (that have cast times) has been introduced to the game (Diana, Syndra, Hecarim) some of the older champion kits feel very awkward in comparison. Shyv's fireball being out of sync with the rest of her skills is a great example. Any plans to go back and "fix" these kinds of issues?


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Dackstrus

Junior Member

01-14-2013

Thresh needs his armor per level back guys..... guys?


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FinalBoss Wilson

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Seems like if Thresh is chock full of intended weakness to be an anti-power creep champion. Where the difficulty is using his moves is supposed to make skilled play more awesome. Will be interesting to see how that works in practice. With his e being deliberately hard to use and his ult being so clunky, I want to like Thresh so bad. But the in-congruent parts of his kit really hurt.


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CertainlyT

Champion Designer

01-15-2013

Quote:
ExaltedVanguard:
So which category does this fall into?

"Shyvana's E make her stop moving, which makes it awkward to use when gap-closing, but using it after you've reached your target and started unloading means your passive go to waste."

Feels incredibly awkward, clunky, and is not friendly to players new to her (QoL), but also has a direct impact on her damage output (Power).

Now that moving while using skills (that have cast times) has been introduced to the game (Diana, Syndra, Hecarim) some of the older champion kits feel very awkward in comparison. Shyv's fireball being out of sync with the rest of her skills is a great example. Any plans to go back and "fix" these kinds of issues?


Good question, though I am not interested in discussing this in terms of specific champions -- too many variables involved in each.

I'll turn the question around: why do basic attacks (the core offensive action in our game) force the attacker to stand still? The answer (in my opinion) lies in the fact that offensive actions should bear meaningful costs. This makes them more interesting. Olaf's Q is a great mechanic because you stop to cast it -- if you hit, you gain ground on the opponent; if you miss, you lose ground.


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