New Solo/Duo Que system

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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Okay, first off this isn't a QQ thread about the elo system. It is highly flawed, yes, due to the fact that it is meant for 1v1 ranking, or team ranking (since a practiced team should be counted as one unit), but it just doesn't encompass what Solo/Duo queue is about. Solo/Duo queue is supposed to be about individual skill.

So with that out of the way, I propose a system like this (numbers not really exact, and will probably need to be modified to be balanced).

Win = 10 elo
Loss = -10 elo
Highest kills on team = 2 elo
Lowest deaths on team = 2 elo
Highest assists on team = 2 elo
Highest CS = 2 elo
Highest Gold = 2 elo

More could be added... this is just a very basic idea.

Now what this does is, even if you lose, yet you do very well, even if you lose elo, you don't lose quite as much. Yes, winning is the most important thing in this game, however in Solo/Duo queue, it's more about contributing in every way that you can to win the game when winning is not possible every single game.

Now, I know people will argue "Well adcs and mids will usually get the highest kills in the game so it isn't fair" however if they are doing their job properly, then they deserve to be rewarded such do they not? Same thing with supports and assists. Adding CS and gold to the list will put more emphasis on farming and objectives I believe.

Now for the 4v5 situation there should be a system in place to where you either lose less elo for losing a 4v5 or do not lose any. I know that 4v5s are possible, so the first choice is probably better. And also, there would have to be some kind of safety on this so that players couldn't just leave the game near the end so that they did not lose elo.

In conclusion, while the elo system is probably one of the best systems possible for this, I believe that the system should be better for solo/duo queue. The system the way it is now just does not properly evaluate individual player skill. Yes, I will admit that I am only 1300 elo. And no, I am not deranged enough to believe that I belong in the 2000s but I do believe that due to new players near my elo and having to carry as hard as I can every single game to try to win, that I am about 200-300 elo below where I know I can still compete.

I would love to hear discussion on this matter, and please, if you respond, give reasons for your opinion on the matter and not just troll replies.

Thanks for reading.


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charnjf

Member

01-12-2013

No, cuz I just played with a guy who all he did all game was farm and kill steal. That would become the name of the game. He did not engage only when someone was low health and that was to steal the kill. We were doing pretty bad as a whole team, but as one of our main tanks never being in a teamfight ever he left the game 2 0 1 . Thats why I don't think this will work. People will farm just to get ELO out of it instead of playing the damn game and helping there team.


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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

But, since they would be losing the elo for losing the game it should counteract that idea. Would you rather help your team to win and get great farm for 12 points of elo, or do you really think that people would just play to not lose as much elo instead of playing to gain elo?


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charnjf

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arisill View Post
But, since they would be losing the elo for losing the game it should counteract that idea. Would you rather help your team to win and get great farm for 12 points of elo, or do you really think that people would just play to not lose as much elo instead of playing to gain elo?
Yes. Because if we start out really bad, but able to recover, teammates will not focus on the recovery, but instead focus on farming, staying out of teamfights, cleaning up, gold whoring, maybe even ksing if it gets them ahead.(cs i mean) I dunno, maybe its just low ELO but people don't play as a team, its all solo play and thats why we end up this low. Its a team based game regardless of how the que is set.


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adc

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arisill View Post
But, since they would be losing the elo for losing the game it should counteract that idea. Would you rather help your team to win and get great farm for 12 points of elo, or do you really think that people would just play to not lose as much elo instead of playing to gain elo?
Win = 10 elo <-- Great.
Loss = -10 elo <-- Great.
Highest kills on team = 2 elo <-- This is generally the carry - why give them an automatic +2?
Lowest deaths on team = 2 elo <-- Again, generally the carry.
Highest assists on team = 2 elo <-- Generally the support.
Highest CS = 2 elo <-- Generally the carry.
Highest Gold = 2 elo <-- Generally the carry.

So in an average game, the tank (top or jungle) will get +10, the support will get +12, the APC will get +10, and the ADC will get +18.

The Elo system is a measure of your ability to WIN GAMES. Not do anything inside that game. I can go 50/0 as Ashe, but if I lose the game, I don't deserve to gain Elo (hell, I'd argue that if you went 50/0 as Ashe and lost, you deserve to lose more, lol).


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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

I completely agree with you about it being a team based game. And yes, that would be a major problem, however part of the recovery would be farming, NOT fighting all the time, getting objectives if you can. Too many games have I played where our team has started to recover, just to start fighting all the time when we really aren't entirely back in the game. It seems like at this elo, people tend to just say "We're behind 10 kills, lets group and teamfight" when the true solution would actually be to farm and try to get back in the game. I understand where you are coming from and that would be a valid problem, but would the problems of this proposed system outweigh the problems the elo system already has?


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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
Win = 10 elo <-- Great.
Loss = -10 elo <-- Great.
Highest kills on team = 2 elo <-- This is generally the carry - why give them an automatic +2?
Lowest deaths on team = 2 elo <-- Again, generally the carry.
Highest assists on team = 2 elo <-- Generally the support.
Highest CS = 2 elo <-- Generally the carry.
Highest Gold = 2 elo <-- Generally the carry.

So in an average game, the tank (top or jungle) will get +10, the support will get +12, the APC will get +10, and the ADC will get +18.

The Elo system is a measure of your ability to WIN GAMES. Not do anything inside that game. I can go 50/0 as Ashe, but if I lose the game, I don't deserve to gain Elo (hell, I'd argue that if you went 50/0 as Ashe and lost, you deserve to lose more, lol).
The argument that you are applying is that in every game you will have a carry that can do such a thing. Sure, you will have games where exactly what you said will happen. However, you will also probably have nearly as many games where your carries do badly and your top or jungle will gain the elo.

And also remember, they will only gain that many points if you WIN. So in an average game, if you win and the exact scenario you said happens, then yes, you'd be right, the points would be awarded that way. However if you lose, then the tank would lose 10, the support would lose 8, the APC would lose 10, and the adc would lose 2. See what I mean? It's not so much a proposed system to always be gaining elo. That would be (for lack of better terms) OP. However, if you do very very well individually and do everything you can to win the game then you should be awarded, seeing as how solo que is about individual skill.


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adc

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arisill View Post
I completely agree with you about it being a team based game. And yes, that would be a major problem, however part of the recovery would be farming, NOT fighting all the time, getting objectives if you can. Too many games have I played where our team has started to recover, just to start fighting all the time when we really aren't entirely back in the game. It seems like at this elo, people tend to just say "We're behind 10 kills, lets group and teamfight" when the true solution would actually be to farm and try to get back in the game. I understand where you are coming from and that would be a valid problem, but would the problems of this proposed system outweigh the problems the elo system already has?
But the Elo system has very few problems.

Here are the things I can come up with off the top of my head that you would consider problems:

AFKers/trolls/ragers/etc. ruin the game and make you lose Elo.
You get bad players in some games and can't carry them.
You believe you're at a lower Elo than you should be, but can't win more than 50% of your games.

Solutions: Either A. play more games and win them because you're a better player (if you truly are, over a large amount of games - a few hundred plus - you'll gain Elo), or B. realize you aren't a better player and are just falling for the Dunning-Kreuger effect.

With this system:

All the problems with the Elo system, plus different roles get different bonuses for no real reason other than you think the Elo system doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arisill View Post
The argument that you are applying is that in every game you will have a carry that can do such a thing. Sure, you will have games where exactly what you said will happen. However, you will also probably have nearly as many games where your carries do badly and your top or jungle will gain the elo.

And also remember, they will only gain that many points if you WIN. So in an average game, if you win and the exact scenario you said happens, then yes, you'd be right, the points would be awarded that way. However if you lose, then the tank would lose 10, the support would lose 8, the APC would lose 10, and the adc would lose 2. See what I mean? It's not so much a proposed system to always be gaining elo. That would be (for lack of better terms) OP. However, if you do very very well individually and do everything you can to win the game then you should be awarded, seeing as how solo que is about individual skill.
Now ask yourself this. If the ADC does well and gets the most gold, farm, kills, and least deaths because his support is the best player in the entire world and gave him freefarm while he only has mediocre skill, why should he only lose 2, while the support loses 8? Or why should the top lane tank lose 10, if he peeled correctly for the ADC every teamfight and thus gave him the least deaths and most kills?


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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

The elo system does not have a problem when it comes to ranked team play. But the point that many people just decide to miss about this, is the fact that solo queue is called solo queue for a reason and that is because it is supposed to measure individual skill.

As for my personal rating, I have been climbing up by winning over 50% of my games usually. I have my streaks going both ways. However, that is hardly the point. Even if I were to reach 2k elo, I would still be an advocate for making a better system for solo/duo queue, due to the fact that it is flawed for judging individual skill. It's perfect for judging team skill.


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Death Letter

Senior Member

01-12-2013

As for your last post, I agree, and I admit that I have no idea how that could be measured. However, does that mean that it does not deserve to be looked into? As I said in the original post, this was just a very basic idea and would need work into it to make it successful. It would need more measurements added into it.


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