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The nerf to Thresh's Ultimate needs to be reverted

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Akuen

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
They walk through the other walls and nothing happens. The walls stay there and are unaffected


Right o. Still seems like a pointless nerf. The ult lasts a grand total of five seconds and the person is slowed by 99%. The chance of them hitting 3 walls is miniscule and if they do, well they kinda deserve the extra damage. The few times where I've seen a person hit the corner of two walls (thus taking damage from both walls at once) it has been sheer luck.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
Akuen:
Right o. Still seems like a pointless nerf. The ult lasts a grand total of five seconds and the person is slowed by 99%. The chance of them hitting 3 walls is miniscule and if they do, well they kinda deserve the extra damage. The few times where I've seen a person hit the corner of two walls (thus taking damage from both walls at once) it has been sheer luck.


I think that last statement is the point. It's sheer luck. Having a player take 50% bonus damage based on pure chance (you could argue that a skilled player could position it intentionally but that's still a bit silly) isn't 'fun' in any way.

The point of the skill is to have a player not want to walk through the wall, or risk taking high damage. Its a zoning tool. It works even better now tbh, since even if the tank wants to open the path he can only break down one wall. So the rest of the team needs to be very careful or take massive damage and cc too.

I really don't see the issue people are having with this change...


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Akuen

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
I think that last statement is the point. It's sheer luck. Having a player take 50% bonus damage based on pure chance isn't 'fun' in any way.


His passive, in other words his stats, are determined by sheer luck. By your logic, the entire champion is not fun to play. I could make the point that Shaco's passive works on turrets and often works when he's facing a champion directly. I could also make the point that by your logic Draven's ult should only be able to hit someone once. I mean, if Draven moves to dodge someone's ult and because of this his ult changes course and hits you for the second time, that's also sheer luck. He didn't necessarily move to get you with the ult twice it just happened that way.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
Akuen:
His passive, in other words his stats, are determined by sheer luck. By your logic, the entire champion is not fun to play. I could make the point that Shaco's passive works on turrets and often works when he's facing a champion directly. I could also make the point that by your logic Draven's ult should only be able to hit someone once. I mean, if Draven moves to dodge someone's ult and because of this his ult changes course and hits you for the second time, that's also sheer luck. He didn't necessarily move to get you with the ult twice it just happened that way.


Ok, first off, I'd respectfully disagree that Thresh's passive has anything to do with luck. Yes there is an RNG factor when dealing with smaller minions. But to say collecting souls is based on luck is simply not true. I can and do, knowingly and deliberately, farm souls. I can chose to position myself where I think I will collect the most souls, I know for example that champion kills, siege minions, large minions from jungle camps will all grant me a soul guaranteed. Considering the drop rate, its also reasonable to expect at least one soul from each minion wave. Granted you sometimes get two or three in a single wave, but that doesn't make the passive luck based. There's also the factor that you have to actively get quite close to souls to pick them up, which is often times not as easy as it sounds.

Secondly, Shaco being able to backstab towers is either a bug or intended, nothing to do with luck. Equally with facing targets. Thats a bug. Bugs don't count for obvious reasons.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with Draven's Ult.. I've never seen it change direction after being fired, unless you mean when it comes back to him, in which case that's not luck either, its controllable by the player (or so i was led to believe, not a Draven player myself).


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-11-2013

I think the difference with Draven and Thresh, is the purpose of the Ult. Draven's is supposed to be an aggressive damaging attack, which can hit twice if you use it well. You can even hit an entire team with it twice if you get it just right.

However, when I look at Thresh, it seems it was never the intention of his Ult to see how many walls you could throw a single target through before the timer ran out. And that's essentially what it became. Its not just about the chance of landing the Ult on the corner. Its that people were focusing on trying to nuke a single target by bouncing them through all the walls. That was clearly counter to Riots intentions with the skill.


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Anialator100

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Master Yi players hated threshes ultimate


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Shadowlrd

Junior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
Anialator100:
Master Yi players hated threshes ultimate

let me guess... yi's q would teleport him threw mutliple walls and it would count as a hit?
otherwise his ult bypasses the slow and the damage would b the largest problem in that case


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Akuen

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
let me guess... yi's q would teleport him threw mutliple walls and it would count as a hit?
otherwise his ult bypasses the slow and the damage would b the largest problem in that case


Yi is untargetable while alpha striking and as far as I know unable to take damage so no that should not be the case.

Quote:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean with Draven's Ult.


You said that it was unfair to hit two walls from Thresh's ult and take damage from both of them as that is purely luck. For starters I disagree. Secondly, the point I was making is that Draven may unintentionally hit someone twice with his ult simply because he flashed out of the way of someone else's ult. That's not him purposely positioning himself in order to do it, it's pure luck. Your argument is invalid.


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orakio

Senior Member

01-11-2013

I think that ultimately thresh's ultimate is in a pretty weak place if you can't be hit by multiple walls. Champions with teleports/flash can get out of it without taking any damage, the ability has a huge CD, and the small range/delay are all negative factors of the ult.

The only bonus was the double wall trick, and without this the ability just feels underwhelming compared to say Amumu (large damage aoe cc ult), nunu (equivalent spacial control + slow but larger area and more damage), maokai (less cc, more damage mitigation for team and significantly shorter cd), gallio (more damage and zone control for team than thresh), etc.

That being said Thresh does have more utility out of normal abilities than some of these champs, and you have to compare the whole kit. I just think that with its current iteration "The Box" could use a shorter CD or more consistant damage, something like damages everyone in AoE, just slows when you break wall and damages those who break the wall after initial cast. Could even break up the damage into a 2 stager, so (at rank 3) have it do like 300 to everyone in AoE and 250 more to anyone that breaks a wall. Just a couple thoughts tbh.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
You said that it was unfair to hit two walls from Thresh's ult and take damage from both of them as that is purely luck. For starters I disagree. Secondly, the point I was making is that Draven may unintentionally hit someone twice with his ult simply because he flashed out of the way of someone else's ult. That's not him purposely positioning himself in order to do it, it's pure luck. Your argument is invalid.


Whether intentional or not the point of Draven's Ult is to be able to hit with it twice. Clearly the intention with Thresh's Ult is not to try and have a single target hit multiple walls.

Lets leave aside the argument of getting lucky with the placement and hitting two walls right off the bat, I'll concede that's a fairly weak excuse for the change.

However it still remains that Riot obviously don't see this Ult as a single target nuke. Its supposed to mesh with his kit and produce CC and/or zone control. This change reinforces that purpose.

It isn't necessary to have a person hit multiple walls so long as one wall is scary enough to deter them from walking into it. Alternatively you can force it on them by engaging in melee and dropping it on their heads for an AOE CC.

If I were to make any change to this Ult from its current form, I'd say that it possibly doesn't need to have the halved effectiveness after the first wall goes down anymore. Let all the walls have the same power regardless. That way even if the enemy tank breaks down a wall, the team is still forced to avoid the others.

The only other area I'd look at changing is possibly the cooldown. But in terms of whether a single target should be able to go through multiple walls, I'm totally OK with the change they made.


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