PD vs. Statik Shiv

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Sereg Anfaug

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01-10-2013

Why are so many champs that built PD in s2 switching to Shiv for s3?

The cost difference is only 300 gold, and PD provides significantly higher AS and Crit chance at the expense of a single percent of MS.

That's clearly in favor of PD, so the answer has to be the passive - except champions building these items are almost always ranged AD carries. As such, positioning is critical and wave clearing is already very powerful, so doesn't the PD's unit collision passive make more sense then the Shiv's multitarget passive?

Is it because the damage is magic, which makes the carry less susceptible to armor nullifying their damage? Carries building these items should almost always be building ArPen, but never MPen, so this seems counterproductive unless in a heavy AD teamcomp where the opposing team isn't building MR at all.

Is it because the damage can crit? Even with an Infinity Edge, this only goes up to 250, and, as before, can be mitigated my MR.

Is it because, with high AS, it procs often enough to significantly increase the champion's damage output? Even so, isn't it unusual for most champions to take more then one AS item? The usual ADC setup I'm familiar with is one item for mobility, one for crit, one for AS, one for LS, one for ArPen, and one for defence. Now, obviously, these can be adjusted as needed, but wouldn't the loss of one of these other items offset any potential gain from the Shiv passive?

Shiv builders, what are your thoughts on this? What advantages do you see in this item over the PD? What situations do you use it for?


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Warrrrax

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01-10-2013

Ive never seen the static shiv used, and looking at the math it seems like a clear win for PD.


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StrmCkr

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01-10-2013

when u check the math on champs with high mobility via abilities Static shiv deals more damage in mid- late game over phantom dancer.

in a straight up fight with out moving phantom wins.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

01-10-2013

actually the math showed that shiv was stronger early-mid game but the PD won out in the late game, the reason that pros have been building it so much is for strategic purposes, if they want bot to be pushing at all times that adcs will get shiv, it also helps when the enemy has weak wave clear or just to even out the gap. They find it strong on hyper carries because they will do the damage regardless and would rather have the extra pushing ability. Personally all get it on vayne so that i dont get raped early game by cait nunu or any other lane that pushes to hard. Its pretty situational but there's a good reason that more and more pros a getting it. Id still get PD on champs with wave clear tho, with the except to cait because shiv makes her poke pretty sick.


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Sereg Anfaug

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01-10-2013

Alright, so basically it's for additional pushing power in lanes that tend to get pushed in, as well as for long range poke?

Thanks for the replies.


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Sereg Anfaug

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01-10-2013

Bump. Anyone else have thoughts on this?


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ExecutionerK

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01-10-2013

I don't build shiv, not because it is bad, but because it doesn't fit my style.

Shiv fits into team that really favor quick movement around the map, so the ad carry can clear minions even faster and can join the team to push somewhere else. However, I play a much more passive AD carry and tends to have no need for the passive.


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Kirielis

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01-11-2013

1%ms is actually noticeable, by the way.

But really? I greatly favour PD for the ghost effect. I'll get shiv on, say, Tristana/Caitlyn - they have gap openers and insane range.