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Kayle: Rageblade vs Malady

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Groper

Member

10-19-2010

This is an analysis of wether to get Rageblade or Malady after Nashor's Tooth.

Guinsoo's Rageblade: 2235 gold
+35 Attack Damage +45 Ability Power
Passive: On attack or spell cast, increases your Attack Speed by 4% and Ability Power by 6. Lasts 5 seconds (stacks up to 8 times => +32% attack speed, +48 ability power).

Malady: 1825 gold
+50% attack speed, +25 ability power
Passive: Your physical attacks shred your target doing 20 magic damage and reducing their magic resistance by 6. Magic resistance reduction stacks up to 4 times (-24 magic resist).

Righteous Fury extra damage (at max level): 28 (+0.3 per Ability Power)


Rageblade adds 35 physical, 15 magical at first, 29.5 magical when charged
Malady adds 27.7 magical, but lowers magic resist by 24 when charged.

Effective magical damage done is MD / (1 + MR%).

At 30 magical resist (what many characters with no extra magic resist have), with Archaic Knowledge (15% spell pen) and without any extra magic pen that's an increase of 19.4%, the most you will get. At 35 MR, the increase is 18.65%. At 50 MR (usual carry with aegis buff), the increase in magic damage is 16.7%. At 110 MR (throw in a Banshee's), the increase is 11.78%. At 200 MR (sturdy tank), the increase is 8.2%

Since the added magical damage is almost equal, let's see when the increase in magical damage done matches the extra 35 physical from Rageblade. First, those 35 are resisted. At 80 armor (lvl 18 carry with Aegis buff), it becomes 19.4 physical damage.

At a 15% increase in magical damage from Malady debuff, we need to do 133 magical damage to do 20 more effective damage per Righteous Fury hit. At a 10% increase, me need to do 200 magical damage.

How much magical damage does Kayle actually do ? At lvl 18, with 3/3 Archmage's Savvy and a Nashor's Tooth, Kayle's AP is 55 + 10.8 + 0.3*110 = 99. A stacked rageblade adds 93 + 0.3*35 = 103.5. So 202.5 AP with Rageblade, 124 with Malady. Righteous Fury hits for 88.75 magical with (charged) Rageblade, 85.2 with Malady. That's about a 13 magical damage increase from the Malady debuff on a carry, for each Righteous Fury hit. Even if we adjust for the fact that Rageblade is more expensive, we get 16 extra magical damage from Malady, still less than the 20 physical from Rageblade.

What about Reckoning ?

422 magical damage with a stacked Rageblade, 413 after stacked Malady debuff. However, we should take into account the fact that Malady is cheaper. Without either item, Reckoning does 339 magical damage. So we get an 83 increase from Rageblade, and a 74 increase from Malady. After scaling we only get 67.77 damage increase from Rageblade, a little lower. They will probably even out when we consider Reckoning damage on a tank.

Other factors are the 39 extra healing we get from Divine Blessing with a stacked Rageblade, the fact that Malady increases magical damage for your entire party on a particular target (this is pretty important), and the fact that Malady reaches max stacks a lot faster, but changing targets means you lose them, while the Rageblade stacks stay with you.

All in all they are pretty similar, though the edge goes to Rageblade. They synergyze well, Malady becomes another cheap item to up Kayle's dps, along with Nashor's Tooth and Rageblade. What do u guys think, which order do u plan to get these 3 items in on Kayle ? Jumping Nashor's might be interesting for a dps boost, but the lacking CDR and mana regen will hurt her support a lot.

Edit: As Benalicious pointed out, I missed the attack speed boost that Malady gives over Rageblade, 50% compared to 32% at max charge. This should up Malady in the Righteous Fury analysis. I'm liking the build Quantumprophecy suggested more and more, Doran's ring, Guinsoo's, Boots, Malady, Glacial Shroud. Can't wait to try it.

[pretentious little kid who wants attention comment taken off in an effort to not derail the thread ]


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Quantumprophecy

Senior Member

10-19-2010

thanks for the dps workup. I was curious as to how the new malady would work with Kayle.

As far as build, since Kayle's support abilities have just been **** all over by Riot, I think playing her more carry focused is better. I had been building Nashor's second, after Guinsoo's, and in some cases I didn't build it at all. I felt like it just wasn't adding enough to my ability to carry, and was aimed more at me supporting. I will most likely try building Guinsoo's, and then going stright to a Malady. I think it will be a cheaper option, and help her carry better.

Just my 2 cents.


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Sykomyke

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Groper:

tldr: go away, I don't need your feedback.



Good Math, bad attitude. -1 for not wanting feedback. Learn a little civility next time.


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Groper

Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Quantumprophecy:
thanks for the dps workup. I was curious as to how the new malady would work with Kayle.

As far as build, since Kayle's support abilities have just been **** all over by Riot, I think playing her more carry focused is better. I had been building Nashor's second, after Guinsoo's, and in some cases I didn't build it at all. I felt like it just wasn't adding enough to my ability to carry, and was aimed more at me supporting. I will most likely try building Guinsoo's, and then going stright to a Malady. I think it will be a cheaper option, and help her carry better.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting, I use to build her support first, I just love the range on her heal and the independence but full out carry has a lot of potential now that we get so much for 4k gold (rageblade + malady). Pick up a level of heal at 4 or go full out E and Q ? I also wonder about the lack of CDR and mana regen, 10.8 second cooldown on Righteous Fury means it's on all the time, 4.8 cd on Reckoning is also nice, as is the mana to spam them.

Edit: come to think of it, we could spend 1675 gold on a Glacial Shroud (+425 Mana +45 Armor UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 20%), easy money after those 2 powerhouse items. CDR taken care of, mana, survivability. 7k, and we've got a Kayle.

Quote:
Sykomyke:
Good Math, bad attitude. -1 for not wanting feedback. Learn a little civility next time.

That is meant for people who lack the patience to read my analysis. Really, I don't think they have much to offer to this (very analytical) thread. -1 for missing the point.


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Silent Reaper

Senior Member

10-19-2010

[QUOTE=Groper;3544046
That is meant for people who lack the patience to read my analysis. Really, I don't think they have much to offer to this (very analytical) thread. -1 for missing the point. [/QUOTE]
Ah. Gotcha

Well, idk about you, but IMO for Kayle the new build for her is probably going to be
Madreds
Boots
Nashoors Tooth
Rage Blade
Malady
Hextech Gunblade

(or something like that)


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Silent Reaper:
Ah. Gotcha

Well, idk about you, but IMO for Kayle the new build for her is probably going to be
Madreds
Boots
Nashoors Tooth
Rage Blade
Malady
Hextech Gunblade

(or something like that)


That's an insanely expensive build, and it lacks any form of survivability

Rushing Malady in to Nashor's, and then some survivability, adding afterwards Rageblade would probably net better results, since the flat magic resistance reduction will be more beneficial early game than late game. Either a Banshee's Veil, Spirit Visage, or Randuin's Omen would probably be necessary, depending on the enemy.


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Groper

Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Silent Reaper:
Ah. Gotcha

Well, idk about you, but IMO for Kayle the new build for her is probably going to be
Madreds
Boots
Nashoors Tooth
Rage Blade
Malady
Hextech Gunblade

(or something like that)


Madred's ? 3800 gold is very hard to come by on Kayle in the beginning. While you do get that sweet 4% max health magic dmg (100 on a 2.5k health carry), you miss out on 93 ap, which is 74 extra Reckoning dmg, 46 extra healing from Divine Blessing and 14 extra physical dmg from her passive. There are better carries for Madred's than Kayle.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

10-19-2010

I think it will be game dependant.

- Doran
- Guinsoo seems like the best first choice... so much damage for so little money.
- Buy your meki for extra mana and boots
- Next 2 daggers.
- If the game is going your way might as well buy nashor.
- If things are a bit rough, or if you have a magic heavy team malady would be a good choice.
- Finish whichever you didn't get
- Buy 3x elixirs
- Hextech if you get that much gold.


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Benalicious

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Groper:

All in all they are pretty similar, though the edge goes to Rageblade. They synergyze well, Malady becomes another cheap item to up Kayle's dps, along with Nashor's Tooth and Rageblade. What do u guys think, which order do u plan to get these 3 items in on Kayle ? Jumping Nashor's might be interesting for a dps boost, but the lacking CDR and mana regen will hurt her support a lot.



Props to doing math instead of spouting **** that you heard somewhere else. (like most people when discussing strategy/item builds

I only have one question. Does your math take into account the attack speed boost that Malady gives over rageblade? If you want to get more accurate picture, you should probably calculate the difference in total damage between going from 0 to 8 stacks with a rageblade, vs. attacking with a malady for that whole period. Because the margin is so slim as it is, malady might come out on top. (in fact it might come out on top even against a fully stacked rageblade once the attack speed difference is taken into account.)

Very helpful math though. ty for taking the time.


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Sykomyke

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Groper:
That is meant for people who lack the patience to read my analysis. Really, I don't think they have much to offer to this (very analytical) thread. -1 for missing the point.


No, I didn't miss the point at all. It's inherently understood that some people are going to go "TLDR" etc etc. But by stating "Go away, I don't want your feedback" ...well then why were you posting it ON A FORUM in the first place. If you didn't want feedback, create a blog post somewhere, disable comments, then post a link here and don't look back.

The simple fact you are responding to other people's comments on their ideas on builds is hypocritical to your original statement.

And honestly, you seem like a bright person so I'm quite ashamed that you went "-1 for missing the point." That just comes off as "Oh, you -1'd me...well I'm going to -1 YOU, take that!" (I.e. childish). Your attitude on your original post was fine up until the very end, which there is no other way to take it. You can try to write it off however you want it but "TLDR: Go away, I don't need your feedback" smacks of a pretentious little kid who wants attention. I just call it like I see it.

Next time, just don't try to act like a hardass and you'll garner respect with your math. Instead of losing it with your attitude.


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