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[Discussion] Kayle builds... New Malady? Manamune? Others?

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Gunflame

Senior Member

10-19-2010

I used to play Kayle a lot... I stopped using her for a while, but I'm back at my baby (the only physical carry I'm really good at). I would like to discuss how these items would work on her.

I have played Kayle the same way for a looooong time:
- 9/0/21 (I tried 21/0/9 for a while, I didn't like it).
- Armor Pen reds, MP5/lvl yellows, flat CDR blues, HP quints,

Basic build:
- Doran's ring
- Blasting wand
- Boots 1, Meki, Rageblade (the other depends on how farming is going).
- Nashor, Boots 2 (4917 gold Guinsoo+Nasho+Doran, selling doran's)
- 3x Elixirs
- Hextech gunblade (late game, 8107 gold, w/o boots/elixir)
- Guardian angel, Banshee's, Madred's Bloodrazor, Trinity Force, etc... (Very very late game).

Skills usually:
E->Q->E->W->E->R ->E then it depends on the game, If I'm going for golem I get lvl 2 Q, if I'm having a hard time farming I get lvl 2 heals. Usually I end up dual leveling Reckoning and heals.

I have been thinking a lot about manamune (even with golem I can't cast as many heals as I would like), now not only that... we also get a new Malady which is very cheap (CHEAPER THAN GUINSOO!!) and it gives nice stats, more choices for my baby. Rageblade is just too good on her so I dont think I'll change it anytime soon, but will a new malady/manamune combo work really well with her?...

A new build that is going through my head:
- Meki
- Manamune
- Boots 1
- Boots 2, Malady (3970 gold, Malady+HP pot+Manamune)
- Rageblade (6205 gold w/o boots)
- 3x Elixirs
- Youmuu's (late game, she gets full bonus from active, 8477 gold w/o boots/elixirs)
- Guardian angel, Banshee's, Madred's Bloodrazor, Trinity Force, Hextech Gunblade, etc... (Very very late game).

Suggestions? Comments?


Malady (remake)
- 1825 total cost
- Base stats changed to +50% attack speed, +25 ability power
- Unique Passive changed to: Your physical attacks shred your target doing 20 magic damage and reducing their magic resistance by 6. Magic resistance reduction stacks up to 4 times.

Manamune
- 2110 gold
- +350 Mana
- +7 Mana Regen per 5 sec
- +20 Attack Damage
- UNIQUE Passive: 2.0% of your max mana is converted to attack damage. UNIQUE Passive: Attacks and abilities increase mana (up to 1000).

Guinsoo's Rageblade
- 2235 gold
- +35 Attack Damage
- +45 Ability Power
- Passive: On attack or spell cast, increases your Attack Speed by 4% and Ability Power by 6. Lasts 5 seconds (stacks up to 8 times).

Nashor's Tooth
- 2465 Gold
- +50% Attack Speed
- +55 Ability Power
- +10 Mana Regeneration per 5
- UNIQUE Passive: Reduces ability cooldowns by 25%


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Mimyr

Junior Member

10-19-2010

I've played a bit of kayle in my (limited) time in LoL, and I really like stinger -> nashor's tooth followed by rage blade. Makes you a rit fury house, and the extra CDR lets you have a 12second cooldown on rit fury by the end game without the golem buff (meaning, only 2 seconds without rit fury active).


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DrDragun

Senior Member

10-19-2010

I think Rageblade is still the best first item due to its stats perfectly feeding into her passive. Also -magic resist is so-so on her because she only has 1 main nuke. Just my opinion.


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PerAnon

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Rageblade and Nashor's seem like they are still amazing grabs for Kayle - I could definitely see an argument for the new Malady on her, but it would probably be the next item after those two (maybe it and Nashor's could swap places?)

I don't know if Manamune would be worth it - Nashor's solves your mana while giving you AS for Fury and CDR, which Kayle loves.


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Ulfhednar

Senior Member

10-19-2010

id try out malady before finishing your manamune, just because of the short timer of the reckoning debuff and the longer cooldown on righteous fury, you need to pump out the damage while you are a true ranged dps. instead of youmuus, id probably go for a starks instead, as she doesnt really need the movespeed portion of its active. and some lifesteal can go along way to keeping you in the mix. Also, due to the synergy between Archangel staff and Manamune, you could try one of those endgame as the mana from mamamune would buff your AP then as well, which in turn would buff your AD again.
so maybe something like
Tear
Malady
Tear-->Manamune
Rageblade
Starrks
Boots
Gunblade
Archangel

for a full inventory game. just from memory really, it may not be as efficient as it seems ingame.


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Groper

Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Gunflame:
I have been thinking a lot about manamune (even with golem I can't cast as many heals as I would like), now not only that... we also get a new Malady which is very cheap (CHEAPER THAN GUINSOO!!) and it gives nice stats, more choices for my baby. Rageblade is just too good on her so I dont think I'll change it anytime soon, but will a new malady/manamune combo work really well with her?...

Can't cast enough heals with golem ? Even without golem I can cast enough heals after Nashor's. With golem there's no way you'll run out of mana on Kayle, but it should be saved for more mana hungry champions.

Quote:
A new build that is going through my head:
- Meki
- Manamune
- Boots 1
- Malady
- Rageblade
- Boots 2
- 3x Elixirs
- Youmuu's (mid-late game, she is melee so she gets the bonus from the active)
- Guardian angel, Banshee's, Madred's Bloodrazor, Trinity Force, Hextech Gunblade, etc... (Very very late game).

Suggestions? Comments?


Fully charged, Manamure would give 1350 mana, +55 AD, +16.5 AP, +7 mp5, all for 2110 gold. Not bad, but I see Nashor's, Rageblade and now Malady as more important, and there's no more room for dps items if you want survivability. Your build drops CDR until very late game (if ever), meaning you will have all the mana you need to cast heals but your output will be a lot lower.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

10-19-2010

I modified my post.. Added some Gold references to make it easier to compare the build.

Mimyr: See my basic build, I'm asking for alternatives. Thanks for the input but I would appreciate if you compare my new build with the old one. Also with 9/0/21 masteries you get about 39.85% CDR which means 10.82 CD on righteous fury, only 0.8 seconds without it.

DrDragun: I loooooveeee rageblade, but the downside of Manamune is that you need to get it early. So you basically say it is not worth it to get Manamune on her.

PerAnon: Maybe that's what I need... instead of Hextech I'll get the new Malady and compound the damage faster. Since this does not modify my first 20 mins build and I love attack speed I could even use it in a ranked game. Instead of elixirs I'll get malady, then elixirs (of course this is situational).

Ulfhednar:
- I dont know if it is worth getting Manamune for second item. You definetly need boots after malady (maybe after tears). Considering the amount of gold I farm it would take about 18-25 mins to get Manamune. So might not be efficient, but I'll consider it anyways.
- I thought about Starks, while I would love lifeleech it is not worth it over Youmuu's. The most important part is the 15% CDR (youmuu's)+10% CDR (elixir)+15% (masteries/runes) = 39.85% CDR. While Stark's is comparable to Youmuu's, the CDR is more important than the lifesteal. Also stark's is more expensive (at that point the game is almost over, I can't over stretch the gold), I can always grab a vampiric scepter and start building hextech or starks AFTER Youmuu's
- Archangel staff would bring be to about 2700 mana... w/ is about 2300. Lets do some math comparing to Hextechgunblade:

Manamune before AAS = 46 AD/14AP from mana/passive
Manamune after AAS = 54 AD/16AP from mana passive (+8 AD+4AP)
AAS bonuses = 45+81= 126 AP/19 AD
Total = 134 AP, 23 AD

Hextech= 60 AD/18 AP + 75AP/11AD = 93 AP, 71 AD

The thing is that Hextech gives you life leech which is REALLLY good. While AAS gives you mana which is useless late game as mana mune already gives you more than enough. Also you are already pushing 9k+ gold with malady, manamune, rageblade, starks.. that's no way you will get 14k gold in a regular game (if it goes that long might as well sell malady and manamune and get infinite executioner and madred's bloodrazor),


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Gunflame

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Groper:
Can't cast enough heals with golem ? Even without golem I can cast enough heals after Nashor's. With golem there's no way you'll run out of mana on Kayle, but it should be saved for more mana hungry champions.


When I'm in fights I spam heals and reckonings on cooldowns...don't ask me why but I do run out of mana (even with mp5 seals, doran's and meki). I use Righteous Fury a lot to farm from safety, and I'm usually soloing a lane... sometimes even a 2v1 lane, so I spend a lot of mana to keep myself alive while farming with Righteous.

- With a pool of less than 800 mana you only get 1.5% per second, it 120 mana/10 seconds.

- Q(2)= 85, W(2) = 65, E = 65. So you need about 220-250 Mana every 10 seconds. You can get 150 mana in 10 with items+materies+golem.

Take into consideration that if you solo golem you need to spend almost all your mana on him (I usually do)... you will notice she can be mana starved if you are doing your best to squeeze your support/carry role


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Benalicious

Senior Member

10-19-2010

I was thinking about Kayle and the new Malady as well, and there's something I'd really like to try on her. (while it would work with almost any ranged carry, the fact that Kayle benefits from AP and magic-reduc makes it seem like it would have decent synergy.

Nashors
Malady
Madreds.
(Guinsoos, if you get that far)

While this build may not take full advantage of her passive, it may still rape pretty hard. You would have insane attack speed, enough CDR to keep Righteous Fury up, which in turn would be boosted by the MR-debuff from Malady. That debuff would ALSO make Madreds hit harder (and since you have IAS out the wazoo, you'd be dishing out the pain). To top it all off, Reckoning increases the damage you do to a target by a percent. I've tested this, and it applies to Madreds. Reckoning means Madreds does close to 5% health per hit, instead of 4%.

Obviously, because they haven't finished patching, I haven't been able to test this, but I can't wait to see how well it works.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

10-19-2010

Quote:
Groper:

Fully charged, Manamure would give 1350 mana, +55 AD, +16.5 AP, +7 mp5, all for 2110 gold. Not bad, but I see Nashor's, Rageblade and now Malady as more important, and there's no more room for dps items if you want survivability. Your build drops CDR until very late game (if ever), meaning you will have all the mana you need to cast heals but your output will be a lot lower.


Remember champion's don't have zero mana. I think I could get to 2000-2300 mana with Manamune. Say 2000 mana for the sake of argument = +60 AD, +18 AP. That's a little better than what you say. At 2300 mana it would be 69 AD/21 AP. That's significant.


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