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Thoughts on Thresh's Passive

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Fudge Dragon

Senior Member

01-09-2013

Overall I think it was a good idea to remove the MR from his passive. It made him way too tanky, considering how much natural HP Thresh had. But taking natural MR for him away completely also greatly affects his ability to tank compared to other champions. On one hand Thresh is designed to pull the squishy adc's away from their team, but when Thresh has to Q into a team fight and ult he has diminished protection from sources of magic damage because the only MR he has is through items, masteries, and runes.
If you think about someone like Veigar, Katarina, or Evelynn who tend to build Deathfire Grasp and Magic Penetration they can easily deal with Thresh even though he's suppose to absorb a lot of damage. Even worse is someone like Karthus or Ryze who can lower his MR even more.

I feel like no natural MR hinders him more than some other supports/tanks.
Looking at someone like Taric, his W passive may not give MR, but Taric has natural MR per level and he has a heal.
Leona has a damaging Armor/Mr buff.
I think giving Thresh no natural MR gain will hinder him too much late game.
I plan on playing him as a support away, and I'm sure a Runic Bulwark and a Wraith Collar will solve the problem for the most part, but I feel like this change damages his abilities as a tank too much. I feel like CertainlyT's logic is slightly flawed in saying you can simply buy a Null-Magic Mantle, with that kind of reasoning you could nerf his passive armor and say you could buy a cloth armor. Even Tank Supports still buy Runic Bulwark.

No natural MR means that as the laning phase goes on Thresh can potentially be harassed by the support character, maybe even more so than the adc. Even if it is diminished compared to other support/tanks like he needs some natural mr scaling.
This turns him more into a support character, yes, but Thresh is also supposed to be a tank. He falls off in comparision to champions like taric who runs in the middle of a team fight and hits his ult, or Leona who Zenith Blade's into a teamfight, ult's and stuns the Adc, they all have natural magic mitigation because they are tanks and they are designed to do that. Thresh can't do that as effectively even though he is forced to because of his ult.

This puts Thresh in a sticky spot since he can either hang back and pull people into his team to jump into the fray himself. This altered passive will make players chose to pull back than jump in.
I don't feel like it's a massive nerf that makes Thresh unplayable, I just feel like you should put the MR back on his passive and cut it in half. Thresh can tank through physical damage fine, but giving him no MR per level or through his passive, and he's supposed to be a melee tank? Something seems off about that.

Thoughts?
I'd prefer some constructive criticism where appropriate other than just getting a bunch of downvotes because I'm way off or something.
I still like Thresh a lot, but the lack of MR scaling turns him into more of a support than a tank, and his kit is designed for him to tank as well as support.


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Xemeron

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I second that!

Lategame he is supposed to tanky anyway, but at the same time he cant jungel, so he wont get items more than support Items and only one Support Item gives Mres, so he will drop like a fly to magic dmg...

Seriously, it was fine the way it was, tanks are supposed to be TANKY, thats why all other tanky supports got scaling Magic resistance.

It wasnt even that he was like unkillable, he was just tanky (whats useless enough these days where as well armor and magic resistance are just plain useless thanks to how easy penetration is to stack)

They should undo this nerf.


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Zenmetsu Saseru

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I didn't like this change at all, it becomes significantly noticeable mid game at how much of a problem this is. I would revert it back to normal, but like most thing I like, it isn't going to happen, so I at least suggest a .75-.90 ratio the the souls. Again, wanting the original ratios back.


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Ronnie Law

Senior Member

01-10-2013

honestly it ought to just stack health instead of MR/Armor


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Maluss

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I think the notion of him being a tank is wrong in of itself. Thresh's kit feels to unresponsive to be a true tank, his abilities feel much better suited towards peeling enemies off of the adc or other priority targets rather than disabling the enemy team. What is forgotten about the passive, or rather not mentioned, is the AP gain which reduces (not removes) the need for Ap item purchases, when combined with the 1.0 ratio on the ult, makes for a fairly defensive wall around your adc. All in all his utility is why they cannot make him too tanky. So long he is not too squishy he'll be fine


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Lautari

Junior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Xemeron:
I second that!

Lategame he is supposed to tanky anyway, but at the same time he cant jungel, so he wont get items more than support Items and only one Support Item gives Mres, so he will drop like a fly to magic dmg...

Seriously, it was fine the way it was, tanks are supposed to be TANKY, thats why all other tanky supports got scaling Magic resistance.

It wasnt even that he was like unkillable, he was just tanky (whats useless enough these days where as well armor and magic resistance are just plain useless thanks to how easy penetration is to stack)

They should undo this nerf.



I agree, it was fine the way it was. Change it back please.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Lautari:
I agree, it was fine the way it was. Change it back please.

Getting enough MR from a passive that allows a champion to forego buying any form of MR is not fine.

If he's too squishy at 30 MR, give him scaling MR/level like most melee champions receive.


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Drigonzex

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Soiyeruda:
Getting enough MR from a passive that allows a champion to forego buying any form of MR is not fine.

If he's too squishy at 30 MR, give him scaling MR/level like most melee champions receive.

I agree if hes too squishy let him get scaling MR back the tool-tip was changed to only say he didn't gain armor so maybe they are planning on giving him scaling MR.

When I played him with the MR and Armor I felt I was way too tanky for nothing and even with the armor hell be hard to kill for those bot lanes since its primarily physical damage being done there.

Now he can save up and get Aegis and Twin Shadows for his MR after laneing phase is over, and depending on how your runed/have masteries set up, you could get enough money to get an abyssal as your support item as itll work wonders with your ult.

Also his range might be another reason they dont want to give him scaling mr, even though its small it does give him an edge that other tank supports like leona/taric/alistar dont have in that he can poke some with less danger. I can understand why they would want to walk a fine line with this dont want to make him the go to tank support and push the other out.


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Lautari

Junior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Soiyeruda:
Getting enough MR from a passive that allows a champion to forego buying any form of MR is not fine.

If he's too squishy at 30 MR, give him scaling MR/level like most melee champions receive.


Hello, welcome to league of legends.

This is what passives do most of the time.

You don't need to buy atkspd on olaf because of his passive (u don't really need a whole lot of atk either because of his steroid) you mainly need hp.

Tons of other champs are the same way. Their passives completely remove the need to waste money on a certain stat or stats.

Like the guy said before, he wasn't unkillable, he was just tanky. There isn't anything wrong with naturally tanky champs. Mundo, Choggath, Singed, Olaf. All these guys get very tanky often times with barely any investment into defensive items.


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Basil van Yhun

Senior Member

01-10-2013

In any case they have to do something. Taking away his MR all together and reducing his Health is a double blow that will greatly reduce his ability to tank and protect his carry. I don't think you have to pull yourself into the team and ult, you are not the initiator. Just place your ult around your adc. The thing is that on live even now Supports with more than 100 MR get blown to pieces by Casters (And anyone with armorpen).
Also double crippling his W is bad. It is supposed to be his trademark skill but increased manacosts, REALLY high cooldown and a nerf to the shield is way too much.

All those things together make him significantly easier to kill and that is terrible for someone who doesn't deal any significant damage after early game outside of his ult.


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