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This Tribunal System..

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Luvatar

Senior Member

01-07-2013

The tribunal operates on a very simple rule: Don't be a Jerk.

People like you are so egocentrically that you don't even realize that you are being a jerk to the people that didn't offend you. Yeah, that 1 guy called you out and it feels bad, but the other 8 do not deserve having to put up with 2 children fighting and ruining the game for everyone. This is why responding Toxic with Toxic is punishable, and if you can't see how ruining the game for everyone else over a petty argument isn't being a Jerk, you probably have no place here in the league.


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OneReich

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
PenguinKillBear:
First of all, it doesn't matter who started it. If you act like a child then you get treated like one. If you cant hit ignore, report at the end of the game then you are just as toxic as the other people in the game.

Secondly, if the person in question "starting" the nonsense has offended multiple people in the game than everyone should report that player sending them to the tribunal. No one else needs to rage. THink of how more pleasant the game would be 4 people mute and report 1 and then enjoy the rest of the game rather than 5 people arguing all game giving themselves no chance to win.

Thirdly, who is to say the other people wont be punished as well? It is wrong to assume that just becasue someone reacted and got punished that the person who did provoke the whole thing wont be as well.

Your entire argument is invalid in the fact that I am arguing against simply ignoring the abuser.


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KimKelley

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Awaken Easley:
I think that's the entire point of why so many people are pissed off about the Tribunal.

The Tribunal is unjust, ergo people are upset that it's unjust.




I don't agree that the Tribunal is unjust. It has its flaws, every system does. However, I very rarely disagree with the punish decisions of most posted "unjust" punishments. I think most people who are pissed off about the Tribunal are angry because they feel they should be able to behave in a manner that is insulting toward another person because of "free speech", which is actually only a protection from the government. I do not believe that the standards of the Summoner's Code are really all that taxing either.


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OneReich

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Luvatar:
The tribunal operates on a very simple rule: Don't be a Jerk.

People like you are so egocentrically that you don't even realize that you are being a jerk to the people that didn't offend you. Yeah, that 1 guy called you out and it feels bad, but the other 8 do not deserve having to put up with 2 children fighting and ruining the game for everyone. This is why responding Toxic with Toxic is punishable, and if you can't see how ruining the game for everyone else over a petty argument isn't being a Jerk, you probably have no place here in the league.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. The entire argument is that yes, if I were to flame back I deserve punishment, but so should the one that called me out in the first place. The tribunal generally ignores all the comments made by the other teammates and go straight on to punish the banned character.


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Mesamec

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
PenguinKillBear:
I disagree with you on this.

First of all the punishments should be incremental. This gives people the best chance to fix. People also get more than 3 strikes in this system before a perma.


The main reason I am against this is the following.
Lets say you have someone intentionally feeding, and another who is negative to his team. Both of these people are ruining the experience for others in the game. They are not doing the same things, but the outcome is the same. People in their games did not enjoy playing. To me it is irrelevant which act is worse because the result was the same. A waste of a game.

Lets not forget either that the incremental system gives people many many chances to change, and if someone gets permabanned it is because they refused to do so. Without an incremental system in place they would continue to do this forever.


The system is incremental... There are several warnings and then increasing time-length suspensions ending with a permaban. The warnings are sent by e-mail and some include Tribunal "cards" showing the cases in question and the punishment handed down by the Tribunal. If you would read some of the threads in which Pendragon or Lyte smite down forum posters, they provide ample evidence and statistics that back up the Tribunal's decision.

People like to bash the Tribunal because the system is highly opaque and does not disseminate information for all to see. While I doubt Riot's policy on not revealing all the information possible in a Tribunal case, I still find it hard to believe most people think that highly toxic players are going unpunished, this is simply not true. There are several cases in which posters QQ about being banned for no reason and a Rioter working in the Tribunal tells them that they were personally reviewed by Tribunal staff and banned based on the wealth of information that Riot accrues. (Rioters on the Player Experience crew supposedly have access to pre-game, post-game, and in-game chat as well as the ability to monitor toxic players [a Rioter mentioned banning a player after monitoring his games for several days]).

To say that Riot's justice system does not work or that it does not work as it should is ignorant. Even the best weed-killer does not kill all the weeds.

EDIT: As to the main topic, if the player who did the provoking in the first place continued to act in such a manner game after game, no doubt he would eventually end up in the Tribunal. Even the nicest of people can have a bad day and just snap sometimes.


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Awaken Easley

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
PenguinKillBear:
I disagree with you on this.

First of all the punishments should be incremental. This gives people the best chance to fix. People also get more than 3 strikes in this system before a perma.


The main reason I am against this is the following.
Lets say you have someone intentionally feeding, and another who is negative to his team. Both of these people are ruining the experience for others in the game. They are not doing the same things, but the outcome is the same. People in their games did not enjoy playing. To me it is irrelevant which act is worse because the result was the same. A waste of a game.

Lets not forget either that the incremental system gives people many many chances to change, and if someone gets permabanned it is because they refused to do so. Without an incremental system in place they would continue to do this forever.


Wrong.

You're equating all negative influences as being the same severity of negativity, which is not the case.

That's like saying "I hit some guy in the spine with a baseball bat and he'll never be able to walk again" and "I called him a dip****" have the same outcome : "He didn't like it!"

Using the same punishment for both situations would be, for lack of a better word, retarded.


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KimKelley

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
OneReich:
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. The entire argument is that yes, if I were to flame back I deserve punishment, but so should the one that called me out in the first place. The tribunal generally ignores all the comments made by the other teammates and go straight on to punish the banned character.



Most everyone has agreed that the original flamer should be punished as well. So, with that agreement, thread over?


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OneReich

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
KimKelley:
If you are referring to the punishments being asymmetric to the crime, most Tribunal punishments work more like the Three Strikes Rule.

My point exactly. Each strike is judged unfairly which is the basis of my argument


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Luvatar

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
OneReich:
People call me a little child yet they down vote me for voicing an opinion. People who say that you would be just as bad as the flamer himself may be correct, but that isnt my point. My point is that the person who started it should be punished as well!


Who says they aren't? If it makes you feel better, chances are they got reported and are being reviewed as well.

But that's not really your point is it? You want to be able to flame back without consequences. I'm sorry but that's not going to happen.


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OneReich

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Luvatar:
Who says they aren't? If it makes you feel better, chances are they got reported and are being reviewed as well.

But that's not really your point is it? You want to be able to flame back without consequences. I'm sorry but that's not going to happen.


Did I ever say that? I stated that the person who is recieving punishment for his actions should be review more deeply. Your making deep assumptions that have no standpoint in this argument. If you read my original post, I said that I believe that arguments begun by the other user that started the argument should be analysed and through this a MORE SUITABLE punishment should be given to the offender.