Remove Pick Order from Summoner's Code [Riot]

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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

12-30-2012

It's getting old Riot.

It's understandable some form of grounds needs to be made to prevent people from raging about who gets to do what. But all I've seen this 1st pick excuse do since the beginning of time is create MORE problems than it solves.

The best teams are made up of people who speak up about what they're best at. Then the team discusses who should go where. Everyone should know at least 3 roles in Ranked. AT LEAST. And everyone has a best role.
However, this rule creates a chaotic law that makes players fight more than they already do normally. Because they'll ignore teammates, not cooperate and just do as they please purely because they believe pick order says they can.

Example:
Let's say your 4th pick teammate rarely loses games as Top lane and always dominates Top Lane. But 2nd pick claims they want Top Lane even though Top is actually their 3rd best role. Mid is their most dominating lane. But they want to do Top this game. The problem here is that because of this summoner's code ****, people believe they have every right to trollfully ignore other teammates and choose as they please. NOT co-operating at all with the rest of the team. So this higher pick ignores his teammates and picks a Top champ and decides to go Top. Completely negating the whole point of working as a team and cooperating with proper communication to try to win.

All this summoner's code line rule of "respect pick order" does is create more problems.
You know what would happen without that little line excuse for people to use? People would call out their best roles, but because there is nothing telling them "summoner's code says I have higher right than you do", there is no argument about it. Instead players will either fight like they do now. Or a better option can come to light that couldn't exist with this summoner's code rule. People would discuss what they can do to help one another. And work as a team. Because there is nothing selfishly telling them they have more rights than other teammates. And so they more often will come into champ select knowing to work as a team and have a couple roles they can go between to be flexible for the team to work at its best.
Matter of fact, there have been some few times I enter matches and players simply just discuss what they are best at and would like to play. These matches end up in a very high win rate compared to the rest. And the rest is more of a majority of every champion select routine. Players enter queue. Some call out what they want. Some stay silent and just trollfully pick whatever they want. No communication. No teamwork. No effort.

The biggest issue I see is that this rule helps promote lack of communication.
Why? How?
Because people think they can just pick as they want because this rule says they have the higher right to, they don't often feel the need to speak. They stay silent. Some players(in my opinion the ones who care about teamwork/communication) speak up and either call or discuss their best roles and which ones they'd like to play and why. Then it comes time to choose champions. The silent players(the 1st picks) just take the roles others have discussed and talked about. No care toward if they are better than them at the roles, or if it's better that the other players choose them or not. They ignore it and just pick. And then THEY have the nerve to call the rest of the team trolls and rule breakers when the team gets mad about it.

This community would be better off without a dictating rule such as the pick order one we have in summoner's code right now. I request it be removed. If there is going to be fighting going on in champ select it will happen regardless. This rule doesn't do anything to stop that. But it does create more issues. And that's counter productive.


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IConquer1101

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

The only real "rule" with pick order boils down to "don't be a jerk about it". Jerks will be jerks, though, no matter what structure you put on it. The best structure for this situation, therefore, is to allow the players to discuss it amongst themselves, thus not forcing any sort of unnecessary and perhaps unfair process.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IConquer1101 View Post
The only real "rule" with pick order boils down to "don't be a jerk about it". Jerks will be jerks, though, no matter what structure you put on it. The best structure for this situation, therefore, is to allow the players to discuss it amongst themselves, thus not forcing any sort of unnecessary and perhaps unfair process.
Exactly. And all this rule does is allow people to feel some power above others. Not needing to discuss what they'll do. But instead jerkfully just take as they want.

While nothing stops anyone from picking whatever it is they want, corruption and conflict arises when people are told they have higher authority over others. This rule helps put that thought in place. By allowing people to believe that because of their pick order they have more say than those below them. Which is kind of wrong and unnecessary.

People will always fight. This topic isn't about stopping that. But it is about stopping something that does indeed help create more fighting than we already have.


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CrusaderAntonius

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

If you're playing ranked, then you should be playing to win. If you're playing to win, then you're going to do what you're best at, and you want your teammates to also play what they're best at. If you need to play your second best so that some other guy doesn't have to play his worst, then that's what you do, because that's what's best for the team.

Playing a role because that's what you *want* is what normals are for. In ranked, you play what's best for the team.

Anyone doing it differently simply has the wrong mindset, or is being willfully uncooperative. Rules only set guidelines, you can't make someone have the right mindset in a game.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusaderAntonius View Post
If you're playing ranked, then you should be playing to win. If you're playing to win, then you're going to do what you're best at, and you want your teammates to also play what they're best at. If you need to play your second best so that some other guy doesn't have to play his worst, then that's what you do, because that's what's best for the team.

Playing a role because that's what you *want* is what normals are for. In ranked, you play what's best for the team.

Anyone doing it differently simply has the wrong mindset, or is being willfully uncooperative. Rules only set guidelines, you can't make someone have the right mindset in a game.
Hard to see whether you're for this or against.

But this discussion is for ranked. Not normals. I don't often play normals for good reasons.

The issue here is more aimed toward 1700 ELO and below of course. Since it happens more there than elsewhere. But in most games 1700 ELO and below people either try to discuss what they can play or they don't talk at all. In these scenarios the silent ones, or rather "the un-cooperative" ones, disregard anything the teammates have to say and simply pick as they please because they were 1st picks above them. Not trying to work as a team, discuss what is best for the team and so on.

There are a higher percentage of matches where people do the above ^ than there are with people who discuss as a team and work things out. And the above conflict is because of the summoner's code rule about pick orders. Without that pick order rule people wouldn't rely on it so much. Nor would they walk into matches, notice they're 1st or 2nd pick and just sit there waiting to select champion and lane without caring to discuss with the team and communicate for a win.
Without the rule people would walk into matches knowing they'll be playing any of the few roles they know. All depending on what is best for the team.


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Fenstick

Senior Member

12-30-2012

The way the picking system works is ideal, either 1st pick is part of a premade and they already know what they're best at, or 1st pick is the highest Elo and they have the best chance of carrying so they get to pick their role.

That's why the pick system is so great, because it works for premeades that have better cohesion than solo q, or it goes in order of elo where the best players get their roles so they can help everyone else that's lower than they are.


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Blues

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

If I pick before you and you want the same role as me, I'll kindly tell you I pick before you.
If you start to argue, I'll tell you stfu and dodge if you don't like it.

Get over it.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenstick View Post
The way the picking system works is ideal, either 1st pick is part of a premade and they already know what they're best at, or 1st pick is the highest Elo and they have the best chance of carrying so they get to pick their role.

That's why the pick system is so great, because it works for premeades that have better cohesion than solo q, or it goes in order of elo where the best players get their roles so they can help everyone else that's lower than they are.
That's very inaccurate though.
Someone can be a higher pick than you by just 1 ELO point(I actually had that 2 matches back). Or just by 50 or so. The thing is, you don't ever really queue in with anyone out of a 100 ELO range. And you could of been higher ELO than the guy above you just 1 game ago. And they got a game with a decent team and did good and won. And you got a game where 2 afk'd and you lost no contest. Does that make someone who has that higher ELO than you more deserving for the right to pick before you? No. But the system doesn't care about that.

The pick order has never really meant that those above are more skilled. In many cases it is true they are better. And in many cases it's the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues View Post
If I pick before you and you want the same role as me, I'll kindly tell you I pick before you.
If you start to argue, I'll tell you stfu and dodge if you don't like it.

Get over it.
You're that guy who I completely ignore.
I'll call a role to say it's my best lane. Wait for everyone else to call what they are best at. See that you're the guy who also wants the same lane. However, I also respect call order as well. If I had called for it first I would ask a couple questions. Such as which champs you would run(depending on team comps), if you're better at an open role and if I could have the role and explain why. And if our team composition says it would actually be better that you run another said role(that you're also good at) while I run that role we were debating over then it has to be that way. And seeing your reply here, you would stubbornly not care for team cooperation and just stick with your decision. And I would take that role just because you acted that way. And still carry the win for the team. And had you called the role before me I would of still asked the above questions to see what works best. If you were truly best for that spot I would give it to you easy. But because you act the way you do, I'd toss it aside and take the role anyway.
Regardless, in the end with people like you, if you go for the role I aim to get I will still take it. You get to either decide to dodge or put up with it and get hard carried. I believe in team cooperation to get things done. But when people go either all about pick order and/or all about call dibs only, I will completely ignore their decision if it conflicts with mine. Seeing as these are the people who will cause conflict and lack of communication/cooperation. And don't deserve the gratitude of getting what they want.


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ShadosPhoenix

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Call order isn't people calling out what they're best at, its calling out what they want to play. So basically you're saying typing speed should decide who plays what role.

Pick order isn't perfect, but its a million times better than call order.


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JimmyNeutron4eva

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadosPhoenix View Post
Call order isn't people calling out what they're best at, its calling out what they want to play. So basically you're saying typing speed should decide who plays what role.

Pick order isn't perfect, but its a million times better than call order.
This times a thousand. My LoL client lags like 1-2 seconds after a game is accepted by everyone, and if you only go by call order, I will almost always get my least desirable position.
Typing speed or load time into the game lobby doesn't entitle you to whatever you want... your elo does. Period. OP is butthurt.


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