Which would you like to see?

Keep Match Making & add Open Rooms 6 54.55%
Just keep match making the way it is 3 27.27%
Remove match making & add Open Rooms 2 18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

Match making& Blind Pick vs Open Room& Auto Balance

12
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Sintobus

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Match making on LoL as of late seems somewhat broken. It is to easy for a low level player with some skills from DoTA or HoN to get a high rating. While its also to easy for inexperienced players to end up on their teams and get a high rating as well. Well over half my games involve me carrying one or two people who have no clue how to either play their hero or how other heroes play. I am currently level 25 with over 250 games so how is it I end up with people who are clueless with under 100 games? There is also the issue of leavers for many reasons and more often than not within the first 15 minutes of any given match.


Blind Pick & Match Making Pros(imo) :

  • Allows inexperienced players a chance to play with experienced players.
  • Allows people who would otherwise have issues finding a game get in one.
  • Allows people with extensive leave records into games they otherwise wouldn't be in.

Blind Pick & Match Making Cons(imo) :
  • People who frequently leave games join games on teams with good & decent players.
  • Inexperienced players are force fed advance things rapidly to play on par when matched with skilled players.
  • To easy for low level players to face a team of pre-made level 20+ if they are experienced.


I know a good number of players I met on DoTA & HoN who play LoL and end up in situations where their pre-made is pitted against people with summoner skills/runes/heroes they have no chance of unlocking or obtaining yet. There is also the issue of DoTA/HoN players new to LoL getting a few early wins due to understanding of the basic concept being over rated quickly and placed in rooms they have no hope to win. They perhaps only have twenty or maybe even thirty games under their belts yet they do not have enough play time to understand how other heroes really work how much runes of higher tiers may matter or even how higher level summoner skills work. Finally as for the cons of BP&MM(Blind Pick & Match Making) leavers. I noticed in HoN with a hosted room players are allowed to decide if people with high leave records are allowed to join as in a percentage of their games played can not allow up to so many leaves being eight percent in HoN.

The above really ONLY covers match making now for the problems of blind pick. I cannot give any pros to this as I believe there are none from my experiences so far other than attempt to make a balanced team prior to seeing what your opponent has.

Blind Pick Pros: (imo this is it)

  • Attempts to encourage teams to willfully make a balanced team.

Blind Pick Cons: (imo)
  • Players are often encouraged to play their best characters at low levels instead of experiment.
  • A well balanced team can more often than not face a team which they have a mere one champion counter against.
(Recently that being to few heroes on a team which can counter heavy tanks)
  • Uncooperative players will often leave after viewing the other teams picks during loading.

As to my second point under cons there is also the issue of players only playing one way. This being that their item builds will not change regardless of their opponents due to either inexperience or unwillingness to adapt to the situation. Match made blind picks seem to force solo queue players with high win/lose ratios into games where they will end up with a 1/1 win lose ratio over all. This is the opposite of what it should be as a 50%/50% chance to win or lose. I do not believe that any of these matches are made properly. I will end up winning a few matches then my next few I have low level inexperienced teammates and leavers everywhere till my wins almost match my losses again.

Open Rooms & Auto Balance

These idea's comes from how DoTA rooms where hosted and how HoN modified it.

First off I would like to point out that by open rooms I mean like when someone goes to make a bot game you can see a list of rooms. This being the game lobby to choose a game to join. In HoN when a user creates a room they can set options such as anti-leaver to disallow players with high leave records to join. They can also set pre-marked skill level preferences to say we only want players within this skill range to join. The room name may also and frequently does show the range or "skill rating" which will be allowed in the room by the host.

The auto balance idea is also from HoN so credit where credit is due in my ideas here. The idea is that a host if playing with friends can lock his friends on his team. Then once a room is full as in five players on each team the host can auto balance the room for extra experience that game. It will shuffle around unlocked players until the best balance is made. Generally no room I had been in ever saw a chance lower than 47% to win or higher than 53% to win. The auto balance proved to be quite honest once games started and allowed for equal games all the time rather than run overs or slaughters due to one team having bad picks against the other or just a lot of inexperienced players with one or two experienced.

Open Rooms & Auto Balance Pros: (imo)
  • Players can choose to leave or stay in a room based on their teams overall chance to win or if a person with an unacceptable leave record is on their team.
  • The auto balance along with the host preference for average skill level in the room will more often allow for balanced games than match making has for me.
  • With out blind pick teams can see what champions their opponents are choosing thus allowing for more balanced games in terms of team picks.
  • Being able to see a players rating allows players to choose if they wish to play against or with someone prior to match start.

Open Rooms & Auto Balance Con: (imo)
  • Depending on how active the community is in game players may find it difficult to find a game. [I don't believe LoL would have this issue however]
  • Players with high leave records may find it hard to get into games until they clear them selves of a leaver status.
  • Players who plan to play a game with four other friends for a five man team will have issues hosting a game where others will join.


I would like to point out that this post is to encourage the staff at Riot to ADD Open rooms & Auto balance. Not for them to remove match making because pre-made teams will have a harder time finding a game. Same to people who have a high leave record for what ever reason.


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Backabacka

Senior Member

11-27-2009

I'm going to start by saying I read the entire thing and if you did not you shouldn't bother replying.

I like matchmaking how it is, I don't see any big problems with it.

If you played Dota primarily in pubic games you are used to leavers and baddies.
If you played Dota primarily in open leagues (TDA and THR do not count, I am talking Wayne's leagues, Power's leagues etc) you are used to players that you would expect to be a certain skill level be no place close.
If you played Dota primarily in vouch leagues (Ihcs, IHL, TIHL, EDL etc) you are used to having impossibly high expectations for anyone you are playing with.
If you played Dota primarily in private leagues (CAL, CEVO-f/p, high level ggc) you are used to only playing with people who meet you impossibly high expectations and have been spoiled because of this.


What I'm trying to say is for anyone who is not new MOBAs you should know what to expect coming into another one, and what you should be expecting is that REGARDLESS of the system you will be paired with/against players that don't meet up to your standards more often than not, always. This is an unavoidable fact of MOBAS.


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Sintobus

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Thanks for reading and having an good feedback. I would like to point out that the issue is from either having above a 1.0 win/lose ratio and being above level 23 or so. This issue also applies to players below level 15 whom are above 1.5/2.0 win/lose ratio. Anyone in between that general does not have a problem. I can say that for sure because I have three accounts from the "Minnows to sharks initiative" one of which is below level 10 one level 16 and my first being level 25.

My lowest account with only 7 games faces level 26's sound right?
My middle account faces people of average skill no good or baddies.
My highest faces pre-mades all being 25+ with people on my team whom are below level 12?

Its where your at currently on the match making ladder to notice the huge issue it actually has.

Edit:

Also this is on its own service with a paid dedicated staff unlike Dota. HoN which is in CBT atm has the same concept of joining rooms but baddies are less frequent due to shown player ratings. I would exspect from a paid staff something better than what an unpaid staff on a game for a custom map scenario.


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Backabacka

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Shown player rankings wouldn't make much a difference with the random aspect of matchmaking, but if there were to be an open room system put into place at any point in the game's lifespan the rating should be visible.

I'm also trying not to care how much I win/lose in normal games, rated matches is where it should matter.


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Sintobus

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backabacka View Post
Shown player rankings wouldn't make much a difference with the random aspect of matchmaking, but if there were to be an open room system put into place at any point in the game's lifespan the rating should be visible.

I'm also trying not to care how much I win/lose in normal games, rated matches is where it should matter.

I could care less if I lose 1,000 games so long as they where an even match.

Matchmaking with blind pick removes any chance you picked a hero that wont get countered by everyone on their team.

My complaint with matchmaking is not the system its self its how the system works. I just played a game with a level 5 and level 12 on my team. This was on my level 25 account, my teammates which where in my pre-made where 29 and 21. You would assume we would get sub-par level 20+ players but we get below level 15 players. Their whole team was level 25+ and 4 of them made up of 2 pre-made of 2 and 1 random being level 30.

Keep in mind the level 5 had no clue what he was doing and the level 12 thought Warwick at level 13 could solo jax at level 18.

If you think that's a fair and even game I could care less what else you might have to say. Honestly games like that happen over 80% of the time. Then the other 20% being the other team gets super low and novice players with them and we get some huge advantage. There has not been 1 even game in the last 150 games I have played that has been even or fair.

Also a quote to you saying something along the lines that in MOAB's bad games are unavoidable. In any game its not completely avoidable I know however in HoN it happens rarely. The player ratings in the open rooms give a host the ability to make a balanced game. That along with being able to see enemy picks pre-match is also a grate way to have an EVEN MATCH and not some slaughter because their whole team counters yours or you end up stacked against.


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Karrot

Senior Member

11-27-2009

I read the post. I don't think the OP really understands how matchmaking currently works.

First of all, there is already an autobalance.

Second of all, inexperienced players aren't matched with experienced players (unless they are in a premade with them.) That's why there's a newbie island.

Third, blind pick isn't part of matchmaking. It's a game mode. Implementing a new game mode is something Riot is working on, but until it's ready it can't be in your proposed system. And when it is ready, it'll be available in normal matchmaking.

Fourth, I played HoN very actively for a while, and even with autobalance games were still much more skewed than they have been in my experience in LoL.

Fifth, practice games are very similar to open rooms right now. You can see who you're playing against, and their summoner level. You can choose to leave. This doesn't stop them from being massacres.

If there's currently a problem, it's with players gaining ELO too fast.


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Sintobus

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karrot View Post
I read the post. I don't think the OP really understands how matchmaking currently works.

First of all, there is already an auto balance.

Second of all, inexperienced players aren't matched with experienced players (unless they are in a premade with them.) That's why there's a newbie island.

Third, blind pick isn't part of matchmaking. It's a game mode. Implementing a new game mode is something Riot is working on, but until it's ready it can't be in your proposed system. And when it is ready, it'll be available in normal matchmaking.

Fourth, I played HoN very actively for a while, and even with auto balance games were still much more skewed than they have been in my experience in LoL.

Fifth, practice games are very similar to open rooms right now. You can see who you're playing against, and their summoner level. You can choose to leave. This doesn't stop them from being massacres.

If there's currently a problem, it's with players gaining ELO too fast.

The auto balance in this with the horrid ELO system is a very big problem and if you read my last post inexperienced players are OFTEN placed with experienced players. It happens to me constantly and one of riots staff members has a thread under this section of the forums even asking for screen shots regarding that matter.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=22605

As for the matter of match making and ELO issues. I would also like to say that I am not saying remove matchmaking I am encouraging there to be both forms of game joining. Then possible in the future of LoL mesh the two together to allow match making to shove players into hosted game rooms.

I am also sorry your experience in HoN was bad however mines was quite favorable 500 games later. The rooms CAN be stacked against you but at least its apparent if your in the 1600+ rating category. At lower ratings in HoN it is far to easy to fake being noob. That along with imbalanced heroes since its CBT can cause quite a stir.

Quote:
Fifth, practice games are very similar to open rooms right now. You can see who you're playing against, and their summoner level. You can choose to leave. This doesn't stop them from being massacres.
That is where my example of bringing this whole idea up comes from. Modification to the practice rooms would allow that with viewable player ratings and a few features to show what quality of players a room would be looking for.


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Karrot

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sintobus View Post
The auto balance in this with the horrid ELO system is a very big problem and if you read my last post inexperienced players are OFTEN placed with experienced players. It happens to me constantly and one of riots staff members has a thread under this section of the forums even asking for screen shots regarding that matter.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=22605
There have been a lot of complaints going on for a long time. For a brief time a Riot employee (was it Zileas? Pendragon? I forget) would answer these threads with an explanation - most of them were a case of the complainer's teammate(s) having a bad game. Yes, it happens. The majority of the remainder were the complainer thinking that they were much better than they actually were. And some were genuinely problematic, that's how Riot found out that newbie island was broken (and fixed it.)

Quote:
I am also sorry your experience in HoN was bad however mines was quite favorable 500 games later. The rooms CAN be stacked against you but at least its apparent if your in the 1600+ rateing catigory. At lower rateings in HoN it is far to easy to fake being noob. That along with imbalanced heroes since its CBT can cause quite a stir.
I don't understand how this is different from LoL. If you're at a high rating in LoL, then it's just fine.

Quote:
That is where my example of bringing this whole idea up comes from. Modification to the practice rooms would allow that with viewable player ratings and a few features to show what quality of players a room would be looking for.
Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be a great addition. My concern is: Do you use a player's Elo rating from Normal games, to display? Or do you have a separate rating for Practice games? Both have pros and cons. What do you think?

I can see where adding it as a separate system would be nice. But I'm still vehemently against replacing the current system, for Normal games. I don't want to go back to the HoN room dance.


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Sintobus

Senior Member

11-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karrot
Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be a great addition. My concern is: Do you use a player's Elo rating from Normal games, to display? Or do you have a separate rating for Practice games? Both have pros and cons. What do you think?

I can see where adding it as a separate system would be nice. But I'm still vehemently against replacing the current system, for Normal games. I don't want to go back to the HoN room dance.
Have the rating earned from all matches combined as your "rating" for open rooms. yet have it only viewable within an open room as well. (or in friends list)

In match making I see it more as you want to be with your friends in a pre-made so it would be easier to get a game this way. While for soloing rooms might be a better choice, however either way there is a choice if they add that system.

Quote:
Quote:
I am also sorry your experience in HoN was bad however mines was quite favorable 500 games later. The rooms CAN be stacked against you but at least its apparent if your in the 1600+ rateing catigory. At lower rateings in HoN it is far to easy to fake being noob. That along with imbalanced heroes since its CBT can cause quite a stir.
I don't understand how this is different from LoL. If you're at a high rating in LoL, then it's just fine.
In LoL a high rating is
1. Obtained to easily
2. Lost to slowly

The match making will often place me with people who have more wins than loses because they know how to play a MOAB. That is these people are below 100 games and are low level, within all these people who can do that there are many who are good and many bad very bad. I have seen level 9's matched with me who can play their hero however MOST of the low levels that get stuck up in level 25+ matches are clueless to the heroes they are fighting and how to play their own truly.

In HoN a rating of 100 point difference had some merit to it and 15xx's where not going against 17xx's or 18xx's. So in the player made rooms you could lets say find a room marked for noobs and see for your self their rating and win/lose ratio and decide if its really a noob room. On the other hand you could find a room marked for experts only and check the same things and decide for your self.

Quote:
, that's how Riot found out that newbie island was broken (and fixed it.)
My last game about an hour ago I think proves there is no such thing as a newbie island here if a level 5 and 12 can get in a game where the next lowest is 21. You can get level 5 in about 5-6 wins on a normal account even less with exp boost. Level 12 would take at most around 60-70 games normal and 30-40 with double exp. Lets say they won all their games do they really have "experience" with below 100 games? Is that experince enough to match people with over 200-300+ games?


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iLuvGirlz

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Senior Member

11-27-2009

From my opinion keep the match making because what it does is let you meet new people all the time.
In a Open Room clans will just stack up games and make it not fun. Why do new players have to put up with this when they can play a game with people with the same game level?

It's also harder to find matchs because players will kick players with low victories and leaving. (Making the PRO-NOOB class again)

This will just kill the community all together. Keep match making and forget about open rooms unless you are going a rank or tournament game.


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