Manamune on Ashe?

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Spines

Member

12-30-2010

Just a question because a lot of people flame me when I get it on her; is it a bad choice to buy Manamune for Ashe?
I inputted it into my build because of decent + attack dmg and i can spam volley forever without worrying about mana > <

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Eledhan

Senior Member

12-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spines View Post
Just a question because a lot of people flame me when I get it on her; is it a bad choice to buy Manamune for Ashe?
I inputted it into my build because of decent + attack dmg and i can spam volley forever without worrying about mana > <

Post your thoughts
Manamune looks like a good item, but sadly, it is simply inefficient.

You can get all the spammability you could ever need from simply going with utility masteries and/or mana regen runes. If you're running out of mana with a utility build, you're spamming Volley too much. Conserve it a bit more, and you should be fine!

Spend that gold on something more useful. Check out my Ashe guide for some excellent item suggestions. In addition, if you want to see a good utility build, check out Appendix A - Side Laning.

There's lots of great info in the discussion following the guide as well. If you're a fan of Ashe, you'll love reading the back-and-forth of that thread, lots of great ideas in there!


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JRizzle81

Senior Member

12-30-2010

The biggest downfall is this... the money and item slot spent could be used for something else that would make her MUCH more powerful. Manamune is really good for mana hungry ability spammers, but Ashe is not one of those so the mana is almost pointless.

You should have plenty of mana by mid to late game for you to use your abilities as much as you like. If you are rushing a manamune then you are missing out on early DPS before the other team gets survivability/tanky which means that you are most likely missing out on kills and some lane control.


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SoFFacet

Senior Member

12-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
this right here is why people flame you--they don't understand what ashe should (imo) be doing and what items they need to do that, and they don't understand gold:stat ratios.

if you're playing ashe as a physical damage/cc champ (i.e. you're playing ashe to use volley and eca) then you need to have a tear to be able to actually do your job. "spamming volley too much" is just as much bull**** as complaining that your fiddle is doing too much damage in team fights.

the problem with manamune isn't that it's a bad item. there are two issues with it.
1. it's not right for every champion
2. people build it at the wrong time

part of the reason that it isn't for every champion is that it's pretty much a pure attack damage item (the mana solution part is overkill in most cases). if you only need attack damage, then it's cost effective at just over 1800 mana (and provides 1350 on its own when maxed) so it's a perfectly fine buy in that case. it's rare that you'll only want attack damage for your champ though--you generally want to also get penetration, crit, attack speed, etc. there just isn't room for a manamune in a lot of builds, especially when crit is so important.

ashe however is a champion that manamune works very well on--she has a need for mana greater than tear can provide for and has a passive that makes crit chance a less important buy. but just because manamune is good for her doesn't mean that you should rush it. i advise getting tear early on so you're not just a two-pump chump in team fights once mid-game hits, but after that you need to immediately start getting attack damage, armor penetration, and cdr (i.e. youmuu's + brutalizer). paying the gold for the upgrade is almost as much as a brutalizer, and won't do as much for your damage output or utility.

and for anyone suggesting that ashe doesn't need mana, sustaining volley with max cdr takes over 120 mp5, which is an amount of regen you won't naturally hit in a game. i'll never understand the mentality of "ashe doesn't need mana, you're just doing too much damage with volley. do less damage with volley and you'll have all the mana you could need."
I don't know about anyone else, but the whole reason I take mregen/18 blues and yellows is so that I never have to build a mana item. And I have never run out of mana past early game, ever, in hundreds of games, with that setup. Granted I don't waste thousands of gold chasing fractions of seconds on Volley's CD, either. Even with that setup I'm having difficulty believing you're going to need to spam Volley for such an extended period of time that you'll drain your mana all the way from full to empty.


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Telaura

Senior Member

12-30-2010

I would personally rather use the rune slots for something more useful like armor pen or attack speed runes. I build a manamune on her every time because it gives you a pretty much bottomless mana pool to draw on and you can if you so choose run around with frost shot on the entire game after getting it without having to worry about it. It gives decent attack damage , the only thing it is missing is attack speed


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Taelic

Member

12-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but the whole reason I take mregen/18 blues and yellows is so that I never have to build a mana item. And I have never run out of mana past early game, ever, in hundreds of games, with that setup. Granted I don't waste thousands of gold chasing fractions of seconds on Volley's CD, either. Even with that setup I'm having difficulty believing you're going to need to spam Volley for such an extended period of time that you'll drain your mana all the way from full to empty.
I think it all boils down to what kind of games people are playing with Ashe as well as appropriate builds.

In highly competitive and coordinated 5v5 ranked matches, Ashe will do a large portion of damage simply from poking the team at range with volley after volley. Tear, and MM really help in this kind of set up. I have seen people use MM to great effect in ranked play.

In single queue and public games, most of ashe's damage will be from predictable ganking by outmaneuvering your opponent and catching them off guard and auto attacking. MM really has no use in these kinds of matches, and can even be way too costly.


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Carados

Senior Member

12-30-2010

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Originally Posted by Taelic View Post
In highly competitive and coordinated 5v5 ranked matches, Ashe will do a large portion of damage simply from poking the team at range with volley after volley.
You'll note you'll never see a stream of a highly competitive and coordinated 5v5 ranked game have an Ashe with Manamune.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-30-2010

If you have the appropriate mana regen runes and mastery, then you really shouldn't need Manamune on Ashe. Unless you're brainlessly spamming Volley every cooldown for an extended period of time, it should be more than enough regen for you. And if your poking phases are lasting long enough for you to run out of mana spamming Volley, that's the point where you realise you should leave the lane and go farm, because your team's too scared to initiate.


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LyraOrpheo

Senior Member

12-30-2010

Only acceptable during Manamune Monday


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Cenerae

Senior Member

12-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
it should be pretty brainless--if volley isn't on cooldown, and one or more enemy champions are in range, press W. saying that "runes give enough regen to use skills as often as the regen from runes allows" doesn't mean anything. i don't imagine that people pop into sona threads saying that runes are enough regen as long as you aren't brainlessly spamming her skills--i don't see why it's fine to do it in an ashe thread.

being able to always use volley at the cost of 995g is a pretty good deal, especially when that also frees up your glyphs for flat cdr and gives you the option to buy 40-60 attack damage later on for only 1115g.

some people choose to build ashe as a ranged auto-attack champion though, which i guess is one way to do it. never mind that there are carry champs with steroids specifically for auto-attack damage. i mean, people used to build teemo as a carry for months without caring that there were better champions for that job.
But spending 995 gold on mana that you shouldn't really -need- in the first place (because like I said, you won't ever run out of mana unless you are spamming for long, extended periods of time. Such as several minute long poke wars at towers which are generally a waste of time for everyone involved)....means you're delaying actual damage items that bring utility for your champion.

Manamune's only really a good choice if you're low summoner level and lack the proper runes and masteries to give you the regen you want. Otherwise, okay, you can spend 2k gold on fixing your mana without gimping your damage, but I can save that 2k and buy a BF sword (which turns into much better damage items than a Manamune) while still being able to volley nearly as often as you. Which option is better?


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