Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Derceto

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Senior Member

10-18-2010

"Conflicted Purpose
This one is not a super strong anti-pattern, but sometimes it's there. A good example of this would be a 500 damage nuke that slows enemy attack speed by 50% for 10 seconds (as opposed to say, 20%), on a 20 second cooldown. At 50%, this is a strong combat initiation disable... but at 500 damage it's a great finisher on someone who is running... but you also want to use it early to get the disable -- even though you won't have it avail by the end of combat usually to finish. This makes players queasy about using the ability much like in the optimization case, but it's a slightly different problem. If the ability exists for too many different purposes on an explicit basis, it becomes confusing. this is different from something like blink which can be used for many purposes, but has a clear basic purpose -- in that place, players tend to just feel creative instead."

Jannas ult feels like it falls in this category to some degree, too often i have to blow it for the push effect and then run because im going to die if i stay to heal. As a matter of fact shes my #1 most played hero and i usually get my ult last.


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TL Phrost

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Recruiter

10-18-2010

So is two teemos in a lane against each other an anti-combo?

Blinding dart each other, fail to auto attack, run away, repeat.


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Splitcart

Senior Member

10-18-2010

Anti-combo does not mean a counter. An anti-combo is when your own ability is counterproductive to yourself (or your teammates).
To go along with the example given of a warlocks fear being broken by damage, and warlocks using dots: Imagine if Morgana's snare broke on damage. If you hit with it, good, but then the snare is immediately worthless because your ground aoe (or any of your teammates) hits the snared character and frees them.

Another way to describe it would be, like, 'reverse synergy'. Your abilities should work together, but if they are detrimental to each other, that means they are poorly designed.

Restating: Anti-combo has NOTHING to do with your opponents, only yourself and in some cases your teammates.


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Morzas

Senior Member

10-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I don't think I'd miss invis if it was taken out of the game entirely. That's why new invis characters tend to have tactical invisibility, which is more like avoidance than actual invisibility.
What would happen to wards then? Would they be made visible, but have large amounts of HP? That might be an interesting way to create fights, or it could end up like the old Clairvoyance.


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SuzumeStjohn

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10-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I don't think I'd miss invis if it was taken out of the game entirely. That's why new invis characters tend to have tactical invisibility, which is more like avoidance than actual invisibility.
And by 'Tactical Invisibility' he means an aoe shield that has nothing to do with stealth.

Had to take the pot shot since you JUST took out a stealth mechanic days ago and then post this.

Btw, any chance on you answering some of our earlier questions? Some others and I had a discussion going and it's been a few of your posts since you've continued it.


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Chiquihuite

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10-18-2010

Zileas:

How do you feel about the Dark Seer's "Vacuum" ability in the context of this thread? It was one of my favorite skills back in the DotA days and I'd love to see it worked in somewhere on a LoL champion.

(For those not familiar with DotA, it's a targeted AoE nuke with a diameter of 500-ish and moderate damage. The twist is that any enemies hit are pulled instantly to the center of the effect.)

Easy to use, yet offers room for creativity (Anivia or Veigar Synergy, anyone?). Rewarding for the caster when they employ it intelligently, but not as punishing as something like Rocket Grab for the victim.

In my opinion the skill possesses a very favorable fun:anti-fun ratio. Granted, you'd still need to find a Champion to place it on and that may very well be the reason it hasn't made the cut yet...but I'd love to see it happen someday =)


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Gilvado

Senior Member

10-18-2010

Hey Zileas, I'm a programmer by trade, but a game designer at heart. Still, I have no professional experience or schooling, and while I do my best to search the internet for resources, it seems there's very little out there. Do you have any recommendations for books, blogs, courses, papers, or websites for learning more about design? Any help would be very appreciated.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-18-2010
95 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilvado View Post
Hey Zileas, I'm a programmer by trade, but a game designer at heart. Still, I have no professional experience or schooling, and while I do my best to search the internet for resources, it seems there's very little out there. Do you have any recommendations for books, blogs, courses, papers, or websites for learning more about design? Any help would be very appreciated.
Not really, but you could apply as a technical game designer here. Email me about it.

Zileas

fdsfdsagdsagsda
at

riotgames.com


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-18-2010
96 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiquihuite View Post
Zileas:

How do you feel about the Dark Seer's "Vacuum" ability in the context of this thread? It was one of my favorite skills back in the DotA days and I'd love to see it worked in somewhere on a LoL champion.

(For those not familiar with DotA, it's a targeted AoE nuke with a diameter of 500-ish and moderate damage. The twist is that any enemies hit are pulled instantly to the center of the effect.)

Easy to use, yet offers room for creativity (Anivia or Veigar Synergy, anyone?). Rewarding for the caster when they employ it intelligently, but not as punishing as something like Rocket Grab for the victim.

In my opinion the skill possesses a very favorable fun:anti-fun ratio. Granted, you'd still need to find a Champion to place it on and that may very well be the reason it hasn't made the cut yet...but I'd love to see it happen someday =)
That's pretty clean, use case is initiate + damage. Though, with dotas hard AE stuns, can be problematic.


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Chiquihuite

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Senior Member

10-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
That's pretty clean, use case is initiate + damage. Though, with dotas hard AE stuns, can be problematic.
Oh yeah combo'ed with the likes of Magnataur/Earthshaker/etc it could be pretty brutal. LoL has toned down that gameplay a lot, though and I'm quite thankful for that =)

Speaking of, thanks for sharing this info in general. Great read!