Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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bobbyhankhill

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Member

10-16-2010

The thing about League Of Legends and ,Defense Of The Ancients,Heroes Of Newerth is all three games are similar on paper but the mechanics/design are completely different. So some abilitys may seem Op in this game, but seem underpowered in the next and vice versa. i'm not a pro game designer, but i know what goes into designing somethings and some abilites won't work with the balancing/flat mechanics of this game. Same goes with HoN for example Pyromancer/Witch Slayer wouldn't work in this game! Having a nuke that hits for 1k 30 minutes in a game will not go well with this game. They managed to work similar mechanics from the previous games into this one but those aren't that far out of reach for example Urgot/Zeus/Thunderbringer/Karthus probably missing a few more but yea you get the picture.


Now why rupture won't work in this game but it can work in the other two Warwick took the usual blood seeking ability already, but thats besides the point having rupture would throw this game off because Damage/Range damage/Ability power all work in a different way in LoL vs.HoN when you rupture someone you can stop if they don't focus you in a group fight and survive. This game is completely different if there was a rupture ability you will die, now that can be said about Dota and HoN once again damage is dealt in completely different way from LoL to dota or HoN.

Also about competitive play in this game compared to others when i first started playing this i had the HoN mentality. I quickly lost that after i saw how this game operates carrying in this game and tanking/casters is so different in this game if you compare damage outputs,modifers on items and how useful items are you start to see how complex LoL is just as Dota/HoN are so the whole debate is useless. Mainly because all Three games work in different types of brackets when it comes to being competitive with tactics,strats etc. One thing i know about dota/hon it can happen in this game too is certain heros just need group of people to run in so they can rape and then carry the **** out of their teams...Yes this can occur in LoL but its not a major flaw in the design system LoL works on! This game is more teamplay,more team fight oriented and less 1 v 5 with 4 meatheads to go in for him.

You can't carry in this game without a decent team doing half of something and carrying is more more position based than anything else. in this game than it is in the others.The main point to this wall of text is some mechanics could work but most won't since the modifers on items and scaling in general is completely different and will continue to be different.Although i wouldn't mind having a pandamonium character i always though that was hilarious to play thanks for reading this wall of text!


The item scenarios and AP with casters one flaw that Dota /HoN always had were melee were gods if built right and range casters were decent. This is why ability power is a successful modifer for casters in this game, but also shows why DOTA/HoN heros would never work in this game.I also see alot of i want denys in this game that makes this game "Casual" it definitely doesn't the main reason denys aren't in this game is because of the exact reason when, Riot designed this game they wanted all aspects to be viable no matter what based on the player/team skill. Now with the ability mechanic and range hero scenario, harrassing a melee that has to get into melee range to deny while the "skilled" ranged if hes good can deny then harrass him back to no end. Of course the engine/gameplay style of this game won't fit with the mechanics of the other games too its simple since this game is alot more team oriented tanks and other roles tend to die more than others 4 deaths is consider alot in Dota/HoN,Four deaths in this game when the game is really long is expected.I also would hate to have a doombringer item in this game especially watching a kog'maw with it lol.

P.S LoL has earned itself a seal of approval to be a competitive game although some heros need some tweaking but as the seasons go on different metagames will form.


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TooManyPenguins

Member

10-16-2010

Tomb of Horrors was amazing, you shut your ***** mouth.


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FergoPwerUnit

Senior Member

10-16-2010

So with all these "Anti-mechanics", why does amumu and shen have a mechanic that, as a tank, makes you not want to hit them?


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SFSC

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Bad players are anti-fun. Can we get rid of them? It's absolutely no fun getting a team that's utterly terrible.


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shal128

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FergoPwerUnit View Post
So with all these "Anti-mechanics", why does amumu and shen have a mechanic that, as a tank, makes you not want to hit them?

HM? You never want to hit a tank. There are many skills and items that make you not want to hit them. Tryndamere, thornmail, Defensive Ball Curl...

Those don't really count as anti-mechanics.

Anti-mechanics are skills that make other skills from the same champion worse.

For example, if you could have Counter-Strike (Jax's dodge) with Amumu, it would work against tantrum.


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Arc insanity

Senior Member

10-16-2010

so gang plank was mentioned earlier in this thread in regards to non reliability, as a whole he is the definition of what shouldnt be done and to a even greater extent his ult's dmg out put is just silly. i have stood in his ult and never gotten hit once then next time the cannonballs become homing missiles. i think as a whole champ he needs to be looked at.

an idea i have for specifically his ult is to have a path for each cannonball and allow the player to see were they will hit by indicating with increasing sized circles that show the area of impact for each specific cannonball. this not only creates a consistent ult but also gives the victim a chance to attempt dodging the cannonballs, even tho they are slowed, clutch dodges would feel good.


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Nanners

Senior Member

10-16-2010

It seems like Blitzcrank's overdrive slow fits into a variety of categories.


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Crypto

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
So why are you playing LoL and not another game ;p
cause I guess some people like being matched up with leavers, ragers and afkers every single game.


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Sheldons

Senior Member

10-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyhankhill View Post
The thing about League Of Legends and ,Defense Of The Ancients,Heroes Of Newerth is all three games are similar on paper but the mechanics/design are completely different. So some abilitys may seem Op in this game, but seem underpowered in the next and vice versa. i'm not a pro game designer, but i know what goes into designing somethings and some abilites won't work with the balancing/flat mechanics of this game. Same goes with HoN for example Pyromancer/Witch Slayer wouldn't work in this game! Having a nuke that hits for 1k 30 minutes in a game will not go well with this game. They managed to work similar mechanics from the previous games into this one but those aren't that far out of reach for example Urgot/Zeus/Thunderbringer/Karthus probably missing a few more but yea you get the picture.


Now why rupture won't work in this game but it can work in the other two Warwick took the usual blood seeking ability already, but thats besides the point having rupture would throw this game off because Damage/Range damage/Ability power all work in a different way in LoL vs.HoN when you rupture someone you can stop if they don't focus you in a group fight and survive. This game is completely different if there was a rupture ability you will die, now that can be said about Dota and HoN once again damage is dealt in completely different way from LoL to dota or HoN.

Also about competitive play in this game compared to others when i first started playing this i had the HoN mentality. I quickly lost that after i saw how this game operates carrying in this game and tanking/casters is so different in this game if you compare damage outputs,modifers on items and how useful items are you start to see how complex LoL is just as Dota/HoN are so the whole debate is useless. Mainly because all Three games work in different types of brackets when it comes to being competitive with tactics,strats etc. One thing i know about dota/hon it can happen in this game too is certain heros just need group of people to run in so they can rape and then carry the **** out of their teams...Yes this can occur in LoL but its not a major flaw in the design system LoL works on! This game is more teamplay,more team fight oriented and less 1 v 5 with 4 meatheads to go in for him.

You can't carry in this game without a decent team doing half of something and carrying is more more position based than anything else. in this game than it is in the others.The main point to this wall of text is some mechanics could work but most won't since the modifers on items and scaling in general is completely different and will continue to be different.Although i wouldn't mind having a pandamonium character i always though the was hilarious to play thanks for reading this wall of text!


The item scenarios and AP with casters one flaw that Dota /HoN always had were melee were gods if built right and range casters were decent. This is why ability power is a successful modifer for casters in this game, but also shows why DOTA/HoN heros would never work in this game.I also see alot of i want denys in this game that makes this game "Casual" it definitely doesn't the main reason denys aren't in this game is because of the exact reason when, Riot designed this game they wanted all aspects to be viable no matter what based on the player/team skill. Now with the ability mechanic and range hero scenario, harrassing a melee that has to get into melee range to deny while the "skilled" ranged if hes good can deny then harrass him back to no end. Of course the engine/gameplay style of this game won't fit with the mechanics of the other games too its simple since this game is alot more team oriented tanks and other roles tend to die more than others 4 deaths is consider alot in Dota/HoN,Four deaths in this game when the game is really long is expected.I also would hate to have a doombringer item in this game especially watching a kog'maw with it lol.

P.S LoL has earned itself a seal of approval to be a competitive game although some heros need some tweaking but as the seasons go on different metagames will form.




you should make this your own thread.
not alot of people will read it here and i feel bad because you put alot of work and time into this.


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Eternal0

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2010

sounds like Gangplank needs a redesign.